11.

BOOK by Mr. Dr. Walker, and Mr. William Chark, opponents, and Campion respondent. The questions were, I. Whether Anno 1580. the scriptures contain sufficient doctrine to salvation. II. Dr. Walter Whether faith only justifieth. The third and fourth of Chark hold these conferences were begun and ended with godly prayers. the fourth by the divines on the protestant side.

and Mr.

day's conference.

ferences

These conferences were so carefully recollected by the diThese con- vines themselves, that they set their own hands to them, as published: testimonies of the just and true accounts given thereof. And and why. some months after, they were published: on this occasion, partly, that all might see what strength of argument this confident challenger was master of; and chiefly, because very false and untrue reports hereof were first printed by others, that were favourers of Campion: who had most unjustly aspersed the protestant disputants, and extolled the Jesuit, as obtaining the victory, and putting the others to silence. Insomuch that the two deans were fain to print a recital of certain untruths scattered in the pamphlets and libels of the papists, concerning the former conferences, with a short answer to the same. Therein is mentioned, how it was observed concerning the Jesuit, that he was so hot and passionate in his arguings: rising up sometimes from the form on which he sat; did cast up and fling with his hands 647 and arms; did knock and beat upon his book, upon every other word, with an exceeding loud voice and sharp countenance: which made one of the antagonists, speaking in Latin, use these words: Qui hic mos est, mi homo? Quis hic gestus? Et loqueris, et pulsas fores. Gloriosus miles. Projicis ampullas, et sesquipedalia verba.

As for the three last conferences, they were faithfully gathered out of the notes of divers that were present, and writ there what was spoken, and after were perused by the learned men themselves; and lastly, published by authority. And so it was certified in the preface by John Field, one of those that took notes. And they are signed at the end of each conference by the hands of the parties that held the discourses.

But an inconvenience was observed in these disputations,

XXII.

ences.

which prejudiced and hindered the good use and benefit that CHAP. might otherwise have been made of them. For the managing, these discourses with Campion were too confused, Anno 1580. and required better regulation and order, for the more effectual putting to silence this boaster. This Thomas Nor- Advice for ton, D. D. was sensible of; who was one of the disputants regulation appointed; who therefore advised a more suitable method conferto proceed in: which he himself followed in another conference. An account of the inconveniences of the former conference, and how to regulate them that should be hereafter, (for more, it seems, were intended,) he wrote in a letter to the lord treasurer; who had sent to him for the notes of the last rencounters with that Jesuit: propounding it to his lordship, and the rest of the most honourable, to think of some amendment of the order in their course of treaty to be had with him. And he prayed his lordship to pardon him to say, that he thought the course hitherto taken, either by lack of order, or moderation, or convenient respect of admitting men to be hearers, had been both fruitless and hurtful, and subject to great harm, by reports. That the last time he was a means, by advice, to have it in some such form as did better content. And the order to set down the objections and answers, and to repeat them written, so as the parties should acknowledge them to be their own, before any answer or reply made unto them, did greatly satisfy the hearers: being so surely used, that in the whole day Campion could not complain, that he [Walker] did wrong him in any one word, but always confessed, that his sayings were rightly conceived, and honestly set down. By which means, as he added, confusion was avoided, by-talk was cut off, and he was hardly driven to the wall. What he once had granted, he could not resume. And our cause, said he, is not so subject to the false reports of his favourers.

He concluded; "My poor opinion herein, which my good "friend Mr. Dr. Hammond doth also allow, I am bold to " send to your lordship. I beseech you pardon me with "your accustomed goodness. What service I can do to the "church of God, to her majesty, or your lordship, I

II.

BOOK "trust you retain favourable opinion of my readiness, so
"far as I am able." What scheme and method this learned
Anno 1580. man propounded more at large, for the more regular and
profitable arguing with this Jesuit, and what persons he
Life of Abp. thought proper to be the disputants, I will not repeat here,
Parker. but refer the reader to another book, where they may be
Appendix,
No.LXXIV. found.

count of

and his course of

life.

648 We shall take our leave of this unhappy man, after we have Some ac- heard the character and particular account given of him and Campion his course of life, before his face, by one of the disputants, viz. the foresaid Walker, in the entrance into the last day's conference. Beginning in these words to the assembly then met: "Gentlemen, ye shall understand, that we be sent hi"ther by authority to talk and confer with one, called Cam“pion; an Englishman born, and brought up in this realm, "in schools and places where good learning hath been

taught. So that he might have been a good instrument "in this commonwealth, and God's church. But contrary "to his bringing up, his friends' expectation, and hope that "this church might have conceived of him, like an unnatural "man to his country, degenerated from an Englishman, an "apostata in religion, a fugitive from this realm, unloyal to "his prince; hath not only fled to the man of Rome, an ad"versary to Christ and his doctrine, but hath got a courage "from that Romanist, with certain other his sectaries, to "come into this realm again, to undermine the gospel of "Christ, to seduce God's people, and withdraw her majesty's "lawful subjects to disobedience and sedition. And hath "been (disguised in ruffian's apparel) in divers places of this "realm, to plant secretly that blasphemous mass and other "popery. Whereunto it appeareth he hath allowed many "unstable tools. And in Yorkshire, where his sectaries and disciples are apprehended and justly imprisoned; now they rage, as I hear say, and curse him, that ever he came there. "Ye see what manner of man we are to talk withal."

ઃ

XXII.

and were as obstinate as the rest to confess any thing: and CHAP. so secretary Wylson, in a letter to the earl of Sussex, lord chamberlain, absent then from the court, wrote, "That he Anno 1580. "had been at the Tower, to examine the two Turwhits; "whom he found very obstinate in religion.”

the queen

abroad at

The queen had now remaining abroad (besides these Dr. Parry Jesuits) other enemies that were papists; as, the earl of promises Westmerland, sir Anthony (called lord) Coppley, and the service Ropers. And for these, as occasion served, Dr. Parry, (be- Paris, &c. fore spoken of,) in his letters writ often to the lord treasurer, did the best offices he could. This Parry went abroad, partly, or indeed chiefly, for debt, and partly to be a pretended intelligencer for the service of the queen: for which office he most earnestly solicited the lord treasurer, with most solemn protestations, how faithful he would be to her majesty's interest, and promised what service he would do her in Paris, Venice, Rome, and other places abroad. This is that Parry that, a few years after, was executed for undertaking the murder of the queen; and coming over for that intent. This year I find him in Paris: where his short or long abode, as he wrote to that lord, depended upon his good or ill speed in his service, intended and protested in his former letters. His artificial hypocrisy may be seen in another of his letters from Paris this year to the same lord; which ran in these words:

My lord, the name and title of a true subject have been His proalways so dear unto me, that I cannot but hold him and testation of loyalty in a ❝his religion far suspected, that practiseth any thing against letter to "her majesty; whose government and fortune have been no treasurer. "less comfortable to all good men at home, than strange 649 " and fearful to her enemies abroad. God preserve her for "th' one, and defend her from th' other. I have hereto""fore purposely written some ordinary letters to your lord

II.

BOOK "lish and Scottish nation in Rome and Paris, (by the hope "conceived of my readiness and ability to serve them,) Anno 1580. " that I doubt not within few months to be well able to " discover their deepest practices, if the same may be nou"rished with her majesty's reasonable charge, to be be" stowed, as occasion shall serve, in trifling gifts (rather of " pleasure than price) and friendly entertainment: the "true manner whereof shall always appear to your lord"ship. Some [at] court have heretofore sought to draw me " into this course: which as I refused then, so will I for" swear to follow, if it be not your pleasure to embrace it, ." and like it in me. I have long (so God help me) faith"fully and heartily honoured and loved your lordship, " and yet forborne to be troublesome unto you. Good "my lord, begin to look favourably upon me, and I will " end in doing you service."

Suspected by that lord.

Recom

But that lord was somewhat suspicious of him, and cared not as yet wholly to trust him, unless it were in buying him books set forth in those parts, &c. which Parry perceived, notwithstanding all his protestations he had made. Now he begs him to begin to look favourably upon him.

In the same letter (which was dated May 1) he menmends some tioned his late commendations of Mr. John Roper and tives to the Mr. Thomas Roper to him, for their readiness and ability to

papists fugi

lord trea

surer.

serve him: well worthy of his good opinion and counteThe Ropers. nance. And beseeched his lordship to take some occasion to thank them for their loving and friendly care of him in his absence: but so as his service might be secreted from every creature, except her majesty and his lordship. " And " as he said before, so he said again, that if he were less " ceremonious than he should be in writing unto his lord-" ship, he trusted he would pardon him: who had, he said,

Westmerland.

" rather serve him in deeds, than please him in words." The earl of And then in another letter, writ a month or two after, he is advocate for the rebel earl of Westmerland in these words: "That if the most humble submission of the unfortunate "earl of Westmerland might by his lordship's means be " made plausible to her majesty, (his life and liberty only