sending them into that description of force (wise." Sir James Pulteney, Lord Temshould be very sparingly used; but he ple, General Norton, and Colonel Standid not wish that it should be excluded ley, were for giving the militia officers the altogether. Neither did he wish that power of selecting. General Tarleton many of them should enter the guards, thought it of much more consequence that although he must remark, that in all the the best men should be sent to the disrecent wars the guards had very much disposable force, than that they should stay tinguished themselves. They had not only in the militia regiments. The Chancellor fought in Flanders, Germany, and lately of the Exchequer expected that when the in Egypt; but in a former war they had legislature had once pronounced their opibeen sent to North America. He therefore nion on the subject there would be an hoconsidered them completely as disposable nourable emulation among the militia offitroops; he then, in compliance with the cers, to send good and efficient soldiers to suggestions of the right hon, gent. agreed, the regular army. This clause was then that the words "Battalions of Royal Ar- agreed to, as was another, which provided tillery and Marine," should be added after that if a sufficient number did not volunthe words "Regular Forces," in the clause. teer out of the half set apart by the militia. The clause as so amended was agreed to. officer, the deficiency should be made good On the clause for allowing the militia out of the remaining part of the regiment, officers to select the men they wished to-On the clause which mentioned general keep in the regiment; service for life;

Mr. Yorke could not agree to this clause. He neither wished to make the militia inefficient by taking all their best men from them, nor did he think it right that only the worst should be sent to join the disposable force, What appeared to him a proper medium, would be to allow a certain proportion only, suppose a third or a fourth, of the flank companies and front rank men to enter into the regular service. Should more of them volunteer, he thought it would best be determined by ballot, who should be accepted; he thought it would be an extreme hardship to tell a brave soldier, who was desirous of honour, You must not volunteer or get the bounty, because you are a good soldier and a credit to the regiment, but such a man may volunteer, because he has been inattentive to his military duties, and is father a disgrace to the regiment. For these reasons he could not agree to the clause as it stood.

General Fitzpatrick rose, and moved as an amendment, that the term should be for 5 years, or until 6 months after a definitive treaty of peace. He grounded his argu ment, not only on general reasons, but on the conduct of government to the militia in a similar case, in the year 1799.-This motion produced a very long and desultory conversation, in which lord Temple, Sir James Pulteney, general Norton, colonel Stanley, general Tarleton, and sir W. W. Wynne, took a share.

Mr. For said that he was a friend to the clause that provided for the service being limited, instead of being for life, because it was founded on principles of justice, and agreeable to the spirit of the constitution of this country, and not repugnant to any military principle whatever; and when he should have an opportunity of giving a vote upon such a question, he should never give it for enlisting men for life; yet he wished his right hon. friend on this occasion not The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he to take the sense of the house, because as had introduced this clause for the purpose this was a limited and partial question, maof meeting, as far as possible, the senti-ny might be against this particular clause ments of the militia officers, and was con-under all the circumstances of the case, vinced, that in whatever mode a consider-who might approve of the principle, and able number of the militia could be brought adopt it on another, and what might appear to volunteer, they would still be a most to them a more fit occasion; and he did valuable accession to the regular army. wish that the majority against such a prinHe wished to give a discretionary power to the militia officers to make the selection as they thought proper, he did not wish then to part only with their worst men. He concluded by moving as an amendment, that after the word "chuse," should be added these words, "by ballot or other

ciple should be greater in appearance than reality. He hoped his right hon. friend, than whom nobody was more capable, would take some opportunity of bringing this subject before parliament, and he hoped that as it was a point on which mi litary opinions were divided, as he pow

heard, the question would be fully consi-would be injurious to the service, and no dered by parliament, since we were almost, advantage to the public. Government if not altogether, the only power in Eu- would take care, that as few abuses as rope which supported its military esta- possible should take place in the practice blishment by enlisting men for life, and of enlisting. we were the very last that ought to adopt such a system, because it was wholly repugnant to the true principles of the constitution of this country, on which its glory and consequently its real interest was founded.

Mr. Ellison thought there ought to be some security against the recruiting serjeants tampering with men.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the best security against that was, that both the labour and the money would be lost, if any thing of that nature took place, because unless he was fairly enlisted, he could never be attested.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed on the general question which had been just alluded to: and remarked that the opinions of military men were much Sir W. W. Wynne said, that without such divided on the subject of enlisting soldiers a clause as this in the act of parliament, for a term of years, instead of for life. there could be no security whatever against Many military characters of the first esti- mal-practices in this respect. They could mation thought it would be attended with not depend on the orders of the executive consequences highly injurious to the ser- governinent in such cases. The militia vice. They also thought it impracticable ought to be protected against that most during war. He did not now argue the dangerous animal, a recruiting serjeant. point, but merely mentioned it, as a mat- Mr. Bankes expressed an intention to of ter of great and serious difficulty at any fer a material amendment in the bill in time, and so doubtful in policy, that he another stage. The committee went should feel himself under the necessity through the bill, and the house being reof opposing such a measure whenever sumed, the report was received immebrought forward. No analogy could be drawn from the practice of foreign countries; none of them were under circumstances similar to this.

Mr. For said, that as to its being a measure which could not be adopted in time of war, nothing was more easy than to include in it a provision that none of the men should be discharged during war; and indeed this very thing was done in one of the bills brought in last war by the right hon. gent. himself; but that was of little importance, for the right hon. gent. had no respect for his own bills.

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diately, and was ordered to be taken into further consideration to-morrow, and the bill with the amendments, was ordered to be printed.-Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, March 29,

[UNIVERSITIES ADVOWSON BILL.] The order being read for their lordships going into a committee on the bill, to repeal so much of the act of the 9th of Geo. II. as went to restrain colleges in the Universi ties of Oxford and Cambridge from purchasing the advowson of livings;

General Fitzpatrick observed, that in the clause he had offered, he copied the The Duke of Norfolk rose to oppose the very words to be found in one of the bills proceedings. He thought adequate reaof the chancellor of the exchequer last sons should be given to induce the legiswar; but, however, he should follow the lature to depart from a regulation which advice of his hon, friend, and withdraw the the wisdom of their ancestors thought a clause. salutary provision. Their lordships would Earl Temple proposed a clause, subject-recollect that the act which the present ing every person, who shall unfairly enlist bill went to repeal, in one of its most imany man out of the militia, to a penalty of 201. or in default of payment, to imprisonment, not exceeding three months, nor less than six weeks.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed it, on the ground that it might give birth to hardships upon serjeants, and other recruiting officers, for having offered money to a man in a public house, &c. which

portant provisions, took place principally at the instance of that great and good magistrate and minister, lord Hardwicke. If the measure was a wise and salutary provision then, why, he would ask, was it now unwise and injurious?

The Bishop of Oxford contended generally for the injurious tendency of the restraint, under the circumstances in which

the members of the universities now stood. Ja variety of important topics, on many of The present proportion of livings was by which questions might arise. It may be no means adequate to the ends of the insti- matter of discussion, whether the income tution. It did not exceed a moiety of of livings should be augmented from the the number of the members, and at least estates and other resources of the univerhe thought the number of livings should be sities; or whether, and how far the number rendered equal to the number of indivi- of livings may, with reference to the imduals to be provided for, and which may portant objects they all had in view, be be done by means of the bill. The law, increased. The result of his own expeas it at present stood, operated in an in- rience on part of the subject was, that, convenient, and, in some respects, a very under the present limitation, the number injurious manner. The measure in ques- of livings was too small; in what proportion would, he thought, contribute to im-tion and in what manner these should be prove the discipline of the universities, increased, was matter for serious consiand materially to promote the interests of deration. learning. His lordship also alluded to the ill effects of the present slow successions to the livings. With respect to the provisions of the bill, he should have some amendments to propose; but seemed to say they were not such as would materially alter them.

Lord Auckland confessed, that in his present view of the subject, he was, generally speaking, favourably disposed towards the bill, as he was to every thing that proceeded from the reverend prelate who introduced it: however, he thought some degree of information on the subject necessary, as at present they were totally in the dark as to the means which the universities now possessed of remunerating their members, as to the number and value of the livings in their disposal, or other resources for that purpose. He should, therefore, suggest the expediency of the information such as he alluded to.

Lord Sidmouth was of opinion that some farther time should be allowed noble lords to inform themselves, and to make up their minds upon a measure of such peculiar importance. The restraint, undoubtedly, was, as the noble duke observed, sanctioned by that great authority, lord chancellor Hardwicke. What he heard from the rev. prelate did not make up his mind as to the The Bishop of Oxford replied at some necessity of a legislative provision, at length, and enlarged upon and enforced least, to the full extent of the present bill. the leading topics which he before urged Admitting the succession to livings, under in favour of the bill; which, however, he the restraint, may be too slow, they may had not the smallest wish to hurry through also, on the other hand, be too quick; the house. He would appeal to their nor did he conceive, that the interests of lordships as to the great importance of learning would be materially benefited education; to which the present bill went by the alteration; as, through it, mem-to afford a boon; one which the legislature bers might be taken from the university at of the country should not grant with a nig. too early a period, and before their lite-gardly hand. He was impressed with the rary acquirements had attained the neces- conviction that the bill would produce the sary degree of weight and solidity. Neither most salutary and desirable effects; and, could he see how the discipline of the uni- adverting to what had fallen from noble versities would be ameliorated by the pre-lords on the score of modification, he hoped sent bill. With respect to the proportion that principle would not be too far acted of livings, on which much stress had been upon. laid, an increase of that, suppose two thirds, of the number of persons, may be a proper subject for discussion. All he would propose at present was a little delay in the progress of the bill, in order to afford time for maturely considering the subject.

The Lord Chancellor saw no objection to the postponement desired by his noble friend, but he considered the subject of the greatest importance, and worthy the most serious consideration. It embraced

Lord Sidmouth, in explanation, indicated his attachment to the genuine interests of learning; and observed, that his idea was, that were the limitation taken away, the succession to livings, in some instances, might be too rapid. He concluded by proposing, that the committee on the bill be deferred till Tuesday next.

The Duke of Norfolk explained, that he was not against all alteration of the present system. He was too well aware of the importance of education; but be

entirely coincided with a noble baron in important reforms which had been propohis idea, that some information should be sed, and which were begun to be acted laid before the house, as to the propor-upon, should be carried gradually into tion, number, and value of the livings. execution, for he would admit they could He contended for the necessity of some not be at once, he had the best authority information on the subject, with which idea for asserting, that the navy might be kept he was so far impressed, as to propose, in up without resorting to the private yards, order to allow full time to collect it, that but that a considerable annual addition the committee on the bill should be post-might be made to it. Unfortunately for poned until Thursday the 2d of May. Lord Redesdale argued for the propriety of having information upon the subject, to enable the house to form a just decision upon the subject, and to pursue the right line of discrimination. He agreed with the noble and learned lord on the woolsack as to the different important questions which the subject involved. He was aware of the difficulties which, in some points of view, existed, as with respect to procuring satisfactory information; but what the house would have principally to consider was the general policy of the measure, and to what extent it might be expedient to authorise the conveyance of livings from private patronage to that of the universities, and the proper ratio, as far as such was practicable, to be established with respect to the successions. After some farther ex-brought forward his motions, proceeded planatory conversation, the committee on the bill was adjourned till Thursday next, and the lords ordered to be summoned for that day.

[STATE OF THE NAVY.] the day having been read,

The order of

the country,the persons who had the superintendance of the naval department at present, seemed to have come into office upon the specific pledge of wholly reversing the, system of their predecessors. Economy and arrangement in the king's yards, the great objects of that noble lord, who lately presided at the admiralty, were either slighted or neglected by those who succeeded him, and the important reforms which he had suggested, which he had partially executed, and which he would have completely effected as soon as peace should be restored, appeared to have been totally abandoned. As a fitter opportunity would arise for discussing that important subject in all its considerations, he would not enter upon it at present, but having stated the general grounds upon which he

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to read the whole of them to their lordships. The motions with which he would trouble their lordships were, first, for "A list of ships which have been fitted, or refitted, between the 8th March 1803, and the 15th May 1804, shewing when each Earl Darnley rose, and expressed his was taken in hand, and when completed." regret that the motions which he was To this he presumed there would be no about to submit to their lordships, had not objection, as it was one of the motions been brought forward by an illustrious made by the noble viscount at the head duke, who was so much better qualified to of the admiralty, with the addition of the give effect to them. The task, however, period during which the ships were refithaving fallen upon him, he would endea-ted.-His next motion would be for " vour to explain the reasons for which he list of such ships as have been docked was induced to move for a variety of pa-between the 8th March 1803, and 15th pers necessary, in his opinion, to elucidate May 1804, specifying the time when dockthe important question, which would be ed and undocked." This was the same shortly submitted to their lordships, and in doing which, he would occupy as little of their time as possible. He was anxious to have it understood, that in bringing forward the business, he was actuated by no motive of a personal nature towards the noble viscount on the head of the naval department. No, his motives were of a more honourable character. They sprung from his anxiety to promote and maintain that establishment, upon which the safety, the honour, and the very existence of the country depended. If the essential and VOL. IV.

made by his lordship, with the addition of the period. He would next move for " A list of his majesty's ships on commission, which were built in the merchants' yards, specifying the time when launched, their cost, and the sums which have since been expended on them, and at what periods." It would appear from this account, that in general the ships constructed in the merchants' yards were obliged to be repaired within the short period of four years after they were launched.-His next motion would be for "A list of his majesty's

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the question put upon every one of them, which he should find himself under the necessity of doing, if he were prevented from following that course which he had adopted, as likely to least delay their lordships.

ships in commission, which were built in Lord Walsingham rose to order, and the king's yards, specifying the time when suggested whether it would not he proper they were launched, their cost, and the for the noble lord to have the sense of the sums which have been since expended on house taken on his first propòsition, before them, and at what periods." The reason he should proceed to read and comment for which he would move for this account, upon the long series of motions which he was to shew how few ships there were ac-intended subunitting to their lordships. tually in commission which had been built Earl Darnley thought it would save in the king's yards, and their durability their lordships much trouble, if he should compared with the ships built in the pri-proceed to read them, instead of having vate yards. His next would be for "An account of the principal articles of naval stores in the king's yards, on the 18th Feb. 1801, 15th of May 1804, and at this time, or as near to the said periods as can be collected from the returns. The quantities of rough and sided timber to be separately Lord Melville thought it would be best stated, and the foreign timber distinguish- to let his lordship proceed, and explain ed from the English." This was also one at once the purport of all his motions, of the noble lord's motions, with a trifling as he hoped to be able to satisfy the house, addition. He was anxious that the quan- that there was no real necessity for acced-. tity of timber should be distinctly stated, ing to any of them. because there is a great fallacy in the ac- Earl Darnley, then moved for " A copy count when the sided timber is returned of that part of the report made by the with the rough, amounting, as he under-commissioners of the navy who inspectedstood, to nearly one third.-His next Chatham dock-yard in 1785, which has would be for "An account of the prin- reference to the supplies of timber sent cipal articles of naval stores due on con- into that yard, and into the yards of Depttract, according to the latest returns from ford and Woolwich." In that report it the several yards; and also on the 18th would, he believed, appear, that the buildFeb. 1801, and the 15th of May 1804;ing of ships of war by contract, impeded the foreign timber to be separately stated considerably the service of the king's yards, from the English, and the rough timber as it prevented supplies of timber from from the sided." The substance of this being offered to them.-His next motion motion was included in one made by the would be for " Copies of the reports made noble lord, but he thought it necessary to by the purveyors of Sherwood Forest, be rather more specific in the account he dated 18th Nov. 1797, and 4th Dec. 1802; should call for, because he was anxious also an account, shewing the number of that the English timber should be distin-trees which have been felled in that foguished from that which was to proceed rest, for the use of the navy, since the pefrom any contracts that had been inade, to riod first mentioned; specifying when the import from Holstein, or elsewhere.-His next motion would be for "An account shewing the number of months which the hemp, and spars for masts and topmasts, in store in the 15th of May 1804, would last, according to the average consumption, during the late war; and also how many months that which is due on the contracts would last." It would appear from this account, he could assert, from the best authority, that there was nearly 18 months consumption in store, and that a quantity equal to the consumption of 12 months had been contracted for.-He would next move for " A copy of the order from the admiralty to the navy board, dated in January 1776, for keeping a three year's stock of timber in the dock-yards."

navy board made application to the treasury for the fall of the said trees." This would establish the fact, that the whole forest had been suffered to rot, notwithstanding the report of the purveyors, tillthe year 1803, when a fall of 8000 trees was made; and during that time the very ships building in the king's yards were rotting for want of timber to complete them.He would next move for " A copy of the letter from the navy board to their purveyor of Sherwood Forest dated 20th Nov. 1797, declining the offer of timber made by Mr. Shaw, of Trowel." In this letter he understood they declared they would be in no want of timber for the following year. His next motion was "For an account shewing the lowest