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profession to which he had the honour to" prive Mr. Pitt of so able a coadjutor, were belong, and certainly, with all due defe- equally zealous in their endeavours to rence to the attorney and solicitor gene-" restore to the public the unaccounted ral, his opinion was as greatly to be re- millions of which that public has been spected ou all constitutional points as theirs" so disgracefully robbed, there would possibly could be. The treasurer of the" perhaps be some excuse for all that navy was culpable then for not applying "affectation of public virtue which has to those whom parliament had invested" lately distinguished certain bawling pawith vast powers for the correction of enor-" triots of the day. Lord Melville has mous abuses. He put the case of a court not deprived the public of a single of justice where certain important docu-" farthing. His most implacable enemies ments were to be procured. Here it" have not dared to charge him with would surely be strange if on an applica-" such an act. Can as much be said of tion for their production, a reference" the fathers of some men? If the public should be had, not to the court itself but were paid its pecuniary claims, long to the crown lawyers. Not less extraor- "since indisputably proved, certain fudinary was the conduct of the treasurer of "rious patriots, instead of living in splenthe navy. From July till October had" dour, would be put on the parish. In elapsed to give time for the right hon." the future resolutions of the house of gent, to consult the attorney and solicitor" commous, in the future resolutions of general, and in the mean time no pains ap- "all public meetings, we hope that an peared to have been taken to procure the commissioners the information they required. Indeed, it appeared from the exainuation of Fennel, that though he was nominally employed to prepare the accounts, he was positively engaged in making out the accounts of lord Bayning, who had been out of office for 20 years. He was decidedly for the motion.

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immediate attention to the enormous "debts still due to the public by certain noisy individuals will be strongly re"commended."-As soon as the clerk had read this last paragraph,

4

Mr. For rose up, and emphatically asked,-is this any palliation?

Mr. Ward replied, that though it was no palliation, it afforded a good and sufficient reason for having the whole enquiry prosecuted with temper, particularly by persons whose families might appear to have been defaulters to a considerable amount.

Mr.Robert Ward denied that the treasurer of the navy had been backward to furnish information. He had, on the contrary, given every possible facility to the enqui ries of the commissioners. He went over the same grounds which had been traced Mr. Sheridan rose only to make a few by those who spoke on the same side of observations. It was the less necessary the question. He wished particularly to for him to enlarge, as the house seemed know whether the hon. admiral was seri- agreed on the general question. He had ous in his assertion that the commissioners no wish to discover any improper degree took shame to themselves for not putting of heat on this or any other occasion, Wilson in prison in consequence of his though certainly the honourable member Evidence? If they were serious in this who had so earnestly recommended moassertion, they were fit only to be Inqui-deration, had little of it indeed in his sitors, and not legal temperate commis-practice. He was not in the house when sioners. [Here there were loud and vio-the right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Pitt) lent marks of disapprobation.] Return-gave notice of his intention to move on ing to the question before the House, he Monday for leave to bring in a bill to conjured gentlemen to look at the question extend the powers of the commisioners of with moderation and temper. With this naval enquiry. He was happy to hear view, he thought the delay of a day of this notice, and more so from the would be highly expedient, and in the quarter whence it proceeded. If, how mean time he was desirous that the whole ever, the powers of the commissioners paragraph should be read by the clerk at were to be renewed, it was necessary that the table. This was the more necessary, their characters should stand high with as the paragraph as read by the hon. mover the house and the public, and that such did not form a whole. The whole was insinuations as those which the honou read accordingly, and the following makes rable member had thrown out should be up the whole paragraph complained of: loudly refuted. If they deserved the cha"Those who were so very impatient to de-racter that had been given of them by the

notice previous to the adjourument.-The original motion was then put, and Mr. Peter Stuart was ordered to attend the house to-morrow.

learned gent. (Mr. Ward); if the hon. | should bring the matter forward, it had baronet at the head of the commission been his intention to have given a similar merited the observation of the learned gent., that he was not fit to be at the head of the commission, unquestionably if the commission was to be renewed, they ought not to be appointed on it. But, in order to vindicate the character of the commissioners from the effect of such insinuations, he felt it his duty to give notice, that on Wednesday next he should move the thanks of the house to the commissioners of naval enquiry.

[PROCEEDINGS RESPECTING THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE TENTH NAVAL REPORT.] Mr. Whitbread having enquired if the answer which his majesty had been pleased to return to the resolutions of the house which had been laid before him on Thursday the 11th instant, had been reported to the house;

The Speaker said that he had thought it a proper inark of respect to his majesty and to the house, to make the communication of the answer of his majesty the first business of the day.-On the motion of Mr. Whitbread, his majesty's answer was again read.

Mr. Peter Moore contended that the commissioners had not reported of Mr. Wilson his having refused to answer any questions that might criminate himself, because it appeared by the report, that when asked whether he had derived any profit from the use of the public money, he had positively declared that he had not. The report of the commissioners only Mr. Whitbread then said, that he could charged him with having declined answer-not forbear expressing his astonishment ing questions which, in being answered, that after such an interval, no step had would expose the guilt of others. He been taken to evince his majesty's sense should ask the learned gent. opposite, of the importance of the resolutions of whether, if a witness were to decline an- that house. Several gazettes had appeared swering questions of that description in a since the resolutions were carried up, and cause before the King's Bench, he would none of them had announced that the name not be committed to prison? As to the of lord Melville had been expunged from conduct of the right hon. the treasurer of the list of his majesty's privy council. the navy, it appeared that the first appli- Neither had the house been informed that cation had been made to him qn the 10th night that his majesty had given orders of July, a second on the 17th, and no for the books being laid before him for answer having been returned, a third ap- that purpose. Unquestionably there had plication had been made on the 2d of been proceedings for the few last days. Oct., and it was not till the 3d of Oct. which might have contributed to occupy that an answer had been returned, after his majesty's attention from this subject. he had taken the opinion of his majesty's He was therefore anxious to know from attorney and solicitor general, whether the right hon. the chancellor of the exhe was bound by the act to obey the pre-chequer, before he gave notice of any cept of the commissioners. He put it motion on the subject, whether it was therefore to the good sense of the house, that right hon. gentleman's intention to whether the right hon. gent. had accu-recommend to his majesty to expunge rately acquitted himself of his duty? When the name of lord Meville from the list of the right hon. gent. had been asked, on the privy council?

a former occasion, whether he had dis- The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, missed Mr. Wilson? it was his opinion, that he did not feel himself bound in conthat the question ought to have been car-sequence of any thing that had occurred ried further, whether he had dismissed in that house, on the day when the resohimself. For when a public officer op-lutions of parliament had been ordered posed himself to an enquiry relating to to be laid before his majesty, to give any the public money, for the purpose of shel- such advice to his majesty as that whicia tering the delinquents, his guilt was nearly the hon. geut. supposed. On the evenequal to that of the man who declined ing of Wednesday a motion to address answering lest he should criminate them. his majesty on that subject had been made, He was happy that his hon. friend had and had afterwards been withdrawn, as given notice of a motion of thanks to the it did not seem to be the sense of a great commissioners; for if no other member many members who had supported the

original resolutions, that the house was not forbear from congratulating the house in a condition at the moment to pro- on the sense which seemed so universally ceed to such an extremity. It was then to be entertained out of doors, of the conargued that a removal from any place duct of the house in the votes which they of trust and confidence would be sufficient, had already passed on the subject of natill farther light was thrown on the subject, tional abuses. The right hon. gent. opby its having been ascertained by a select posite to him seemed also sensible of the committee how far the noble lord was im-general spirit which had been awakened plicated in the business. A suggestion, through the country. He had that night, however, was thrown out, that the noble prematurely in one sense, and tardily in lord, though he had then retired from another, given notice of a motion which office, might be again restored, and hold he unquestionably meant in some shape other places of trust and confidence, and to meet the wishes of the people. In it had been proposed, as a step which doing so, however, was not the right hon. would be sufficient to guard against this gent. taking the business out of the hands circumstance, that the resolutions of the of other hon. gentlemen, who had already former night should be laid before his given notice of similar intentions? That majesty. In this proposition he had con- was not a novel practice, now for the first curred. But he certainly did understand time adopted by the right hon. gent. It it to have been the opinion and sense of happened some years ago to him (Mr. the house, that that step would of itself be Whitbread), on which occasion the right satisfactory. And under that impression hon. gent. took a business out of his hands, he had not thought himself called on, nor but never did any thing under it. The did he now feel himself called on, till he right hon. gent. had indeed given notice was otherwise instructed by the house, to of a much more extensive motion than make any recommendation on the subject had yet been proposed; but whether he to his majesty. had done so in consequence of hearing Mr. Whitbread thought that a sense of that such an intention had been declared duty should have dictated to the right hon. in another quarter, and wished to take gent. to have formed a different conclusion it out of their hands for the purpose of from that which he had now professed. doing it away, he should not at present Indeed it had seemed to him absolutely pretend to judge. If a new committee impossible, after the solenn manner in was appointed, he hoped it would be chawhich it had been determined that the re-racterised by equal fidelity with that which solutions of that night should be laid be- had distinguished the commissioners for fore his majesty, that the right hon. gent.naval enquiry. The right hon. gent. had could have abstained from recommending expressed a doubt if there existed any to his majesty a measure which seemed lavish or improper expenditure in the so naturally to follow from the knowledge military department. On that subject he of those resolutions. He could not fi-(Mr. Whitbread) entertained no doubts. gure how it was possible in more pointed He was convinced that in the military terms to have expressed the sentiments department as gross a system of peculation of the house. The step which they had adopted was, to his conception, equally marked and pointed, as if the motion which he had that night submitted had been agreed to. If, however, the right hon. gent. thought that he had sufficiently satisfied his duty by allowing things to remain as they were, he (Mr. Whitbread) felt that he would not discharge his without giving notice of a motion, similar to the one which he had formerly withdrawn, for the first open day. He then fixed Tuesday next for that purpose.

and plunder existed as had already in part been discovered in the naval expenditure. An hon. gent., a friend of the noble lord, had, in vindicating him from the present charge, asserted that he possessed opportunities in another department of making an immense and rapid fortune, without any chance of detection. That hon. gent. was well acquainted with the truth of what he stated: and was it to be supposed after what we had seen, that such opportunities did exist, and that too, without the possibility of detection, and that no Mr. Whitbread then proceeded to call advantage was taken of them. The thing the attention of the house to the subject was hardly to be looked for. The first of the motions of which he had given motion which he should now submit to notice previous to the recess. He could the consideration of the house, was for a

select committee, for taking into farther also; and so, he hoped, would every comconsideration the tenth report of the missioner of Enquiry feel himself inclined commissioners of naval enquiry. There to act. It was not his wish to trespass on were still some dark parts in that re- the time of the house, and he should, port, on which he wished that farther enquiry therefore, conclude by moving his first moshould take place. It was not his intention, "That a select committee be aption to enter at any length into what passed pointed to make further enquiry into the on the last debate on the subject, farther matters contained in the report of the comthan to say, that he thought the right hon. missioners, and to report the same, with gent, opposite had not paid that proper their opinions and observations thereon, to respect to that house, and to the commis- the house." sioners acting under their authority, which The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose, not might have been expected, in not dismiss- to oppose the appointment of a select coming a person who had refused to answer mittee, but from a wish to clear himself the questions put to him, when called on from the charge of having prematurely under an act of parliament to give evidence. given notice of a motion on any particular Would it be maintained that every witness subject, and thereby taken it out of the was to be entitled to decline answering hands of another gentleman. He spoke any question which might be put to him, now in the presence of the hon. gent. alon the pretence that it might criminate luded to, and he appealed to him, if the himself; and that the judge was not en- notice which he gave was not expressly titled to ask, in what respect, and to as-conditional, that if he (Mr. Pitt) did not, certain whether the allegation was real or on an early day after the recess, bring forfeigned? The right hon. gent. himself ac- ward such a motion, he (Mr. Giles) would. tually condemned Wilson, and condemned When, at an earlier period of the session, his own conduct by the apology he now the hon. gent. (Mr. Giles) moved for leave made for both. He now confesses that to bring in a bill for continuing the powers the clause of the act of parliament, does of that board; what was his (Mr. Pitt's) not apply to Wilson. According to his ground of objection? Was it that the peown account, Wilson tells him, and he now riod should not be extended? Quite the tells the house, that Wilson was the instru- contrary. He allowed that full time ought ment and tool of Trotter. Would his be- to be given them for finishing their investiing so involve him in legal, or even moral gations, and his only objection was, that it guilt, so as to excuse him from answering would be premature to enlarge the period questions? The pretence was ridiculous, it of their continuing in office at so early a was to screen his principal, not himself; period of the session till once it was ascerfor, as being merely a tool, any answer tained whether the present session might he might have made, might have gone to not afford them sufficient time to comexculpate, but could not criminate him- plete their enquiries. If they were not self. Equally well might the printer of likely, at a more advanced period of the the stamp on which the order was written, session, to be able to complete their busihave refused answering any question which ness before the end of it, he pledged himmight have been put to him, lest he should self then to move for the enlargement of criminate himself. Another hon. gent. their powers. Now as only one additional (Mr. Ward) had been much offended at an report had since been made, while it was expression which had fallen from the hou. stated that other objects of enquiry still represident of the board of Enquiry-that mained, he felt it both his duty and his inhe took blame to himself for not having clination to move for extending the period committed Wilson to prison. He hoped of their continuance. And, however much that hon. gent. would attend on the night he confessed himself to be one of those when the vote of thanks was to be moved who did declare that there were parts of to the commissioners of Naval Enquiry, their conduct of which he could not apand would then state what he had alleged prove, he still felt it his duty to say, that that night, that in consequence of the de- they ought to continue. In this situation, claration, the hon. president ought to be he submitted to the candour of the house dismissed from his situation. He (Mr. that there was no ground whatever for Whitbread) declared, that had he been in charging him with having taken the busithe place of the hon. bart. he would have ness out of the hands of any other hon. committed not only Wilson, but Sprott gent. There was another part of the hon. VOL. IV.

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gent.'s speech in which his sentiments had the attorney general. If the enquiry was been misrepresented. He thought, as in to be prosecuted by bill of discovery, as the department into the management of to the question of participation, it would which investigation had been made, they be improper to refer that part of the rehad discovered practices and malversations, port to the committee, or to establish two of which they could not approve, it would concurrent and collateral investigations. be proper to make such inquiries into every He did not think therefore, that any part of branch of the revenue, as should go to the report, which was to be the 'object of shew, either that in other departments they the bill of discovery, should be subjected to did not exist, or, if they did, that it was the the enquiry of the committee. He was indetermination of parliament to take such diferent whether his object was to be atmeasures as should detect and prevent tained by amendment, or by an understandthem, in future. He did not say that none ing that such parts only of the report such existed. He only said that it must were to be submitted to the committee, as prove satisfactory to the public that the should not be the subject of investigation fact should be ascertained. In so great in the other course of proceeding. He and expensive an establishment as that of had prepared some words, which he should Great Britain, in the midst of the perilous move by way of amendment, as most contimes too, which we had of late years to sistent with form. The right hon. gent. encounter, it was hardly to be expected then moved, "That a select committee be that some acts of improper management appointed, to consider further of the matwould not present themselves. He was ter contained in the tenth report of the anxious, however, that the investigation commissioners of Naval Enquiry, so far should be gone into with temperance, mo-as the same relates to the application of deration, and a regard for the public good. sums granted for navy services to other -The same motives which made him think branches of the public service, as also to the general subject one peculiarly deserv-the irregularities committed in the mode ing of attention and investigation, to be of drawing the money granted for the serconducted on the immutable principles of vice of the navy from the Bank, and to justice, induced him heartily to concur in any communications that might have been the appointment of a select committee, to made to the chancellor of the exchequer, consider farther the subject of the tenth or the lords of the treasury, relative to report. He was particularly anxious for such irregularities; and to the proceedings a most minute investigation into that part that might have been taken for recovery of it, in which, acccording to the state-of the arrears due of the late Mr. Jelliments of the hon. gent. he himself (Mr. Pitt) was implicated. On that subject, he Mr. For asked, if the house were to inwas eager that the hon. gent. would bring struct the attorney general to commence a forward every thing in his power. He prosecution against lord Melville on any hoped that in the many years of his life particular point, it would not be proper which had been devoted to the public ser- that that would also form a part of the envice, he might presume, without flattery to quiry of the committee? There was another himself, to think that he had so conducted point which he thought would not go with himself, as to evince that he was beyond propriety to the committee; but would be any corrupt or sordid motive.-He did better discussed in that house, and that suppose, that any one who knew him, was not a crimination, but an admonition would not imagine it possible that he could to the right hon. gent. (Mr. Canning) on be a party to any transaction from corrupt his continuing Mr. Wilson in office. This views. But he did not wish to rest his naturally led him to remark, that it was not justification on the partiality of his friends, by the house going into an enquiry on the or on that favourable opinion, which he tenth report alone; on the abuses in the was flattered, knowing a considerable por-military department, or in all the departtion of the house to entertain; he wished ments, that they could perform their duty. the facts to speak for themselves. As to They could do their duty only by going inthe other part of the motion, he did not to those enquiries seriously, and with an think it would be proper to refer the whole intent to persevere. If they were to go of the report to the committee, as he un-into enquiries, let them shew their sincerity derstood that the second motion of the by the persons whom they chose of the hon. gent. was to direct a prosecution by committee. Persons like the commission

coe."