trary nature of darkness, that which I also to-day confess is vanquished by the power of God, and that Christ has been sent forth as a Saviour for my restoration, as previously the same apostle says. 19. AUGUSTIN said That we should discuss on rational grounds the belief in two natures, has been made obligatory by those who are hearing us. But inasmuch as you have again betaken yourself to the Scriptures, I descend to them, and demand that nothing be passed by, lest using certain statements we should bring confusion into the minds of those to whom the Scriptures are not well Let us therefore consider a state FORTUNATUS Said: If with regard to the soul the apostle had said that we are by nature children of wrath, the soul would have been alienated by the mouth of the apostle from God. From this argument you only known. show that the soul does not belong to God, ment that the apostle has in his epistle to because, the apostle says, "We are by nature the Romans. children of wrath.' But if it is said in view of the fact that the apostle' was held by the law, descending as he himself testifies, from the seed of Abraham, it follows that he has said corporeally, that we [i.e., Jews] were children of wrath even as the rest of mankind. But he shows that the substance of the soul is of God, and that the soul cannot otherwise be reconciled to God than through the Master, who is Christ Jesus. For the enmity having been slain, the soul seemed to God unworthy to have existed. But that it was sent, this we confess, by God yet omnipotent, both deriving its origin from Him and sent for the sealing of His will. In the same way we believe also that Christ the Saviour came from heaven to fulfill the will of the Father. Which will of the Father was this, to free our souls from the same enmity, this enmity having been slain, which if it had not been opposed to God could neither be called enmity where there was unity, nor could slaying be spoken of or take place where there was life. 18. AUGUSTIN said: Remember that the apostle said that we are alienated from God by our manner of life. FORTUNATUS said: I submit, that there were two substances. In the substance of light, as we have above said, God is to be held incorruptible; but that there was a con For on the first page is what is strongly against you. For he says: “Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, which He promised aforetime by His prophets. in the Holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was made unto Him of the seed of David according to the flesh, who was predestinated to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness from the resurrection from the dead of our Lord Jesus Christ." We see that the apostle teaches us concerning our Lord Jesus Christ that before the flesh he was predestinated by the power of God, and according to the flesh was made unto Him of the seed of David. Since you have always denied and always will deny this, how do you so earnestly demand the Scriptures that we should discuss rather according to them. FORTUNATUS said: You assert that according to the flesh Christ was of the seed of David, when it should be asserted that he was born of a virgin,3 and should be magnified as Son of God. For this cannot be, unless as what is from spirit may be held to be spirit, so also what is from flesh may be known to be flesh. Against which is the authority of the Gospel in which it is said, that "flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God, neither shall corruption inherit incorruption." 5 Here a clamor was made by the audience who wished the argument to be conducted on rational grounds, because they saw that Fortunatus was not willing to receive all things that are written in the Codex of the apostle. Then little discussions began to be held here and there by all, until Fortunatus said that the Word of God has been fettered in the race of darkness. At which, when those present had expressed their horror, the meeting was closed." DISPUTATION OF THE SECOND DAY. THE NEXT DAY, A NOTARY HAVING AGAIN BEEN SUMMONED, THE DISCUSSION WAS CONDUCTED AS FOLLOWS: FORTUNATUS said: I say that God Almighty brings forth from Himself nothing evil, and that the things that are His remain incorrupt, having sprung and being born from an inviolable source; but other contrary things which have their being in this world, do not flow from God nor have appeared in this world with God as their author; that is to say, they do not derive their origin from God. These things therefore we have received in the belief that evil things are foreign to God. 20. AUGUSTIN said: And our faith is this, that God is not the progenitor of evil things, neither has He made any evil nature. But since both of us agree that God is incorruptible and incontaminable, it is the part of the prudent and faithful to consider, which faith is purer and worthier of the majesty of God; that in which it is asserted that either the power of God, or some part of God, or the Word of God, can be changed, violated, corrupted, fettered; or that in which it is said that Almighty God and His entire nature and substance can never be corrupted in any part, but that evils have their being by the voluntary sin of the soul, to which God gave free will. Which free will if God had not given, there could be no just penal judgment, nor merit of righteous conduct, nor divine instruction to repent of sins, nor the forgiveness of sins itself which God has bestowed upon us through our Lord Jesus Christ. Because he who sins not voluntarily, sins not at all. This I suppose to be open and perspicuous to all. Wherefore it ought not to trouble us if according to our deserts we suffer some inconveniences in the things God has made. For as He is good, that He should constitute all things; so He is just, that He may not spare sins, which sins, as I have said, unless free will were in us, would not be sins. For if any one, so to speak, should be bound by some one in his other members, and with his hand something false should be written without his own will, I ask whether if this were laid open before a judge, he could condemn this one for the crime of falsehood. Wherefore, if it is manifest that there is no sin where there is not free exercise of will,' I wish to hear what evil the soul which you call either part, or power, or word, or something else, of God, has 1 Liberum voluntatis arbitrium. done, that it should be punished by God, or repent of sin, or merit forgiveness, since it has in no way sinned? FORTUNATUS said: I proposed concerning substances, that God is to be regarded as creator only of good things, but as the avenger of evil things, for the reason that evil things are not of Him. Therefore for good reason I think this, and that God avenges evil things because they are not of Himself. But if they were from Him, either He would give them license to sin, as you say that God has given free will, He would be already found a participator in my fault, because He would be the author of my fault; or ignorant what I should be, he left me whom he did not constitute worthy of Himself. This therefore is proposed by me, and what I ask now is, whether God instituted evil or not? and whether He Himself instituted the end of evils. For it appears from these things, and the evangelical faith teaches, that the things which we have said were made by God Himself as God the Creator, as having been created and begotten by Him, are to be esteemed incorruptible. These things I also proposed which belong to our belief, and which can be confirmed by you in that profession of ours, without prejudice to the authority of the Christian faith. And because I can in no way show that I rightly believe, unless I should confirm that belief by the authority of the Scriptures, this is therefore what I have insinuated, what I have said. Either if evil things have appeared in the world with God as their author, deign to say so yourself; or if it is right to believe that evil things are not of God, this also the contemplation of those present ought to honor and receive. I have spoken about substances, not about sin that dwells in us. For if what we think to make faults had no origin, we should not be compelled to come to sin or to fault. For because we sinned unwillingly, and are compelled by a substance contrary and hostile to ourselves, therefore we follow the knowledge of things. By which knowledge the soul admonished and restored to pristine memory, recognizes the source from which it derives its existence, in what evil it dwells, by what good works emending again. that in which unwillingly it sinned, it may be able through the emendation of its faults, for the sake of good works, to secure for itself vouchsafed. If the soul is commanded to the merit of reconciliation with God, our repent, sin is from the soul, and the soul has Saviour being the author of it, who teaches sinned voluntarily. For if the soul is comus also to practice good things and to flee pelled to do evil, that which it does is not evil. from evil. For you ask us to believe that not Is it not foolish and most absurd to say that by some contrary nature, but by his own the race of darkness has sinned and that I choice, man either serves righteousness or be- repent of the sins. Is it not most absurd to comes involved in sins; since, no contrary say that the race of darkness has sinned and race existing, if the soul, to which as you say that forgiveness of sins is vouchsafed to me, God has given free will, having been consti- who according to your faith may well say: tuted in the body, dwells alone, it would be What have I done? What have I committed? without sin, nor would it become involved in I was with Thee, I was in a state of integrity, sins. I was contaminated with no pollution. Thou didst send me hither, Thou didst suffer necessity, Thou didst protect Thy domains when great pollution and desolation threatened them. Since therefore Thou knowest the 21. AUGUSTIN said: I say it is not sin, if it be not committed by one's own will; hence also there is reward, because of our own will we do right. Or if he who sins unwillingly deserves punishment, he who unwillingly does necessity by which I have been here oppressed, well ought to deserve reward. But who by reason of which I could not breathe, which doubts that reward is only bestowed upon I could not resist; why dost Thou accuse me him who does something of good will? From as if sinfing? or why dost Thou promise forwhich we know that punishment also is in-giveness of sins? Reply to this without evaflicted upon him who does something of ill sion, if you please, as I have replied to you. will. But since you recall me to primordial FORTUNATUS said: We say this, that the natures and substances, my faith is that God soul is compelled by contrary nature to transAlmighty which must especially be attended gress, for which transgression you maintain to and fixed in the mind-that God Almighty there is no root save the evil that dwells in has made good things. But the things made us; for it is certain that apart from our bodies by Him cannot be such as is He who made evil things dwell in the whole world. For not them. For it is unjust and foolish to believe those things alone that we have in our bodies, that works are equal to the workman, things dwell in the whole world, and are known by made to the maker. Wherefore if it is rever- their names as good; an evil root also inheres. ential to believe that God made all good For your dignity said that this covetousness things, than which nevertheless He is by far that dwells in our bodies is the root of evils; more excellent and by far more pre-eminent; since therefore there is no desire of evil out the origin and head of evil is sin, as the of our bodies, from that source contrary apostle said: "Covetousness is the root of nature dwells in the whole world. For the all evils; which some following after have apostle designated that, namely covetousness, made shipwreck of the faith, and have pierced as the root of evils, not one evil which you themselves through with many sorrows. "have called the root of all evils. But not in For if you seek the root of all evils, you have the apostle saying that covetousness is the root of all evils. But the root of a root I cannot seek. Or if there is another evil, whose root covetousness is not, covetousness will not be the root of all evils. But if it is true that covetousness is the root of all evils, in vain do we seek some other kind of evil. But as regards that contrary nature of yours which you introduce, since I have responded to your objections, I ask that you deign to tell me whether it is wholly evil, whether there can be no sin apart from it, whether by this alone punishment is deserved, not by the soul by which no sin has been committed. But if you say that this contrary nature alone deserves punishment, and not the soul, I ask to which is repentance, which is commanded, 11 Tim. vi. 10. one manner is covetousness, which you have said is the root of all evils, understood, as if of that which dwells in our bodies alone; for it is certain that this evil which dwells in us descends from an evil author and that this root as you call it is a small portion of evil, so that it is not the root itself, but is a small portion of evil, of that evil which dwells everywhere. Which root and tree our Lord called evil, as never bearing good fruit, which his Father did not plant, and which is deservedly rooted up and cast into the fire. For as you say, that sin ought to be imputed to the contrary nature, that nature belongs to evil; and that this is sin of the soul, if after the warning of our Saviour and his wholesome instruction, the soul shall have segregated itself from its contrary and hostile race, adorning itself also 2 Matt. xv. 13, and iii. 10. your mouth so may they be understood by your heart: you swear by the Paraclete. If therefore you wish to find out experimentally whether what I say is true, determine not to swear. You will see, that that habit is borne along as it has become accustomed to be. And this is what wars against the soul, habit formed in the flesh. This is indeed the mind of the flesh, which, as long as it cannot thus be subject to the law of God, so long is it the mind of the flesh; but when the soul has been illuminated it ceases to be the mind of the flesh. For thus it is said the mind of the flesh cannot be subject to the law of God, with purer things; that otherwise it cannot be evil. For that I may discuss with you those restored to its own substance. For it is said: words, which as they do not withdraw from "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin. But now that I have come and spoken, and they have refused to believe me, they shall have no excuse for their sin." Whence it is perfectly plain, that repentance has been given after the Saviour's advent, and after this knowledge of things, by which the soul can, as if washed in a divine fountain from the filth and vices as well of the whole world as of the bodies in which the same soul dwells, be restored to the kingdom of God whence it has gone forth. For it is said by the apostle, that “the mind of the flesh is hostile to God; is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." just as if it were said, that snow cannot be Therefore it is evident from these things that the good soul seems to sin not voluntarily, but by the doing of that which is not subject to the law of God. For it likewise follows that the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh; so that ye may not do the things that ye will."3 Again: "I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive in the law of sin and of death. Therefore I am a miserable man; who shall deliver me from the body of this death, unless it be the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ," "through whom the world has been crucified to me and I to the world ?" 5 992 warm. For so long as it is snow, it can in 22. AUGUSTIN said: I recognize and embrace the testimonies of the divine Scriptures, and I will show in a few words, as God may deign to grant, how they are consistent with my faith. I say that there was free exercise of will in that man who was first formed. He was so made that absolutely nothing could resist his will, if he had willed to keep the precepts of God. But after he voluntarily sinned, we who have descended from his stock were plunged into necessity. But each one of us can by a little consideration find that what I say is true. For to-day in our actions before we are implicated by any habit, we have free choice of doing anything or not doing it. But when by that liberty we have done something and the pernicious sweetness and pleasure of that deed has taken hold upon the mind, by its own habit the mind is so implicated that afterwards it cannot conquer what by sinning it has fashioned for itself. We see many who do not wish to swear, but because the tongue has already become habit uated, they are not able to prevent those things from going forth from the mouth which we cannot but ascribe to the root of is also called the old man, we have the neces 10 I But sity of our habit, so that we may not do what lambs into the midst of wolves, that is, just we will. But when the grace of God has men into the midst of sinners for the preachbreathed the divine love into us and has made ing of the gospel received in the time of man us subject to His will, to us it is said: from the inestimable divine Wisdom, that He "Ye are called for freedom," and "the might call us from sin to righteousness. grace of God has made me free from the law what the apostle says, that our struggle is not of sin and of death." But the law of sin is against flesh and blood, but against principalthat whoever has sinned shall die. From this ities and powers, and the other things that have law we are freed when we have begun to be been quoted, this signifies that the devil and righteous. The law of death is that by which his angels, as also we, have fallen and lapsed it was said to man: "Earth thou art and into by sin, and have secured possession of earthly earth thou shalt go."3 For from this very things, that is, sinful men, who, as long as fact we are all so born, because we are earth, we are sinners, are under their yoke, just as and from the fact that we are all so born be- when we shall be righteous, we shall be under cause we are earth, we shall all go into earth the yoke of righteousness; and against them on account of the desert of the sins of the we have a struggle, that passing over to first man. But on account of the grace of righteousness we may be freed from their God, which frees us from the law of sin and dominion. Do you also therefore deign to of death, having been converted to righteous-reply to the one question that I ask: Could ness we are freed; so that afterwards this God suffer injury, or not? But I ask you to same flesh tortures us with its punishment so reply: He could not. long as we remain in sins, is subjected to us in resurrection, and shakes us by no adversity from keeping the law of God and His precepts. Whence, since I have replied to your questions, deign to reply as I desire, how it can happen, that if nature is contrary to God, sin should be imputed to us, who were sent into that nature not voluntarily, but by God Himself, whom nothing could injure? FORTUNATUS said: He could not suffer in jury. 24. AUGUSTIN said: Wherefore then did He send us hither, according to your faith? FORTUNATUS said: My profession is this, that God could not be injured, and that He directed us hither. But since this is contrary to your view, do you tell how you account for the soul being here, which our God desires to liberate both by His commandments and by His own Son whom He has sent. FORTUNATUS said: Just as also the Lord said to His disciples: Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves." Hence it 25. AUGUSTIN said: Since I see that you must be known that not with hostile intent cannot answer my inquiries, and wish to ask did our Saviour send forth His lambs, that is me something, behold I satisfy you, provided His disciples, into the midst of wolves, unless only that you bear in mind that you have not there had been some contrariety, which He replied to my question. Why the soul is would indicate by the similitude of wolves, here in this world involved in miseries has where also He had sent His disciples; that the been explained by me not just now, but again souls which perchance might be deceived in and again a little while ago. The soul sinned, the midst of wolves might be recalled to their and therefore is miserable. It accepted free proper substance. Hence also may appear choice, used free choice, as it willed; it fell, the antiquity of our times to which we return, was cast out from blessedness, was implicated and of our years, that before the foundation in miseries. As bearing upon this I recited of the world souls were sent in this way against the contrary nature, that subjecting the same by their passion, victory might be restored to God. For the same apostle said, that not only there should be a struggle against flesh and blood, but also against principalities and powers, and the spiritual things of wickedness, and the domination of darkness."5 If therefore in both places evils dwell and are esteemed wickednesses, not only now is evil in our bodies, but in the whole world, where souls appear to dwell, which dwell beneath yonder heaven and are fettered. 23. AUGUSTIN said: The Lord sent His to you the testimony of the apostle who says: "As through one man death, so also through one man came the resurrection of the dead.' What more do you ask? Hence do you reply, wherefore did He, who could not suffer injury, send us hither? FORTUNATUS said: The cause must be sought, why the soul came hither, or wherefore God desires hence to liberate the soul that lives in the midst of evils? 26. AUGUSTIN said: This cause I ask of you, that is, if God could not suffer injury, wherefore He sent us hither? FORTUNATUS said: It is inquired of us, if evil cannot injure God, wherefore the soul was sent hither, or for what reason was it |