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not preclude the other from being adopted afterwards; for it might be voted at any time, as a sum of money on account of the volunteer service, and that, if necessary, might be very easily granted; but that would be improper now, not only because it was not clear that the plan was eligible, although 'he did not say it was not, but also because the expense of the volunteer corps, as it stands at present, is not yet well ascertained; for these reasons he should hope that the right hon. gent, would not persist in this plan for the present. With regard to the advice of the right hon. gent. with respect to the maritime counties, that they should have a larger proportion of volunteers than the inland counties, it had been already adopted, he did not know whether to the full extent or in exact proportion that they ought to be in each particular instance, but certainly to a very considerable extent. In Devonshire, for instance, there were not less than 12,000, exclusive of Plymouth and the Dock. The same might be said of Portsmouth. As to Kent, there was a difference of opinion; it appeared, however, that from 10 to 11,000 had been raised there, beside those of the Cinque Ports, some of which were in Sussex, as the Committee knew, but in all they amounted to 5,000 men; so that the volunteers in the couuty of Kent were not less than 15,000 men. This, he apprehended, would shew the Committee that the maritime counties in the south of the island had been allowed to raise volunteers, in a manner suitable to the distinction stated by the right hon. gent. So again in the counties of Cumberland and Durham, and those that extended to that part of the coast, there was a greater number of volunteers raised than in other counties; not that the inland counties were scanty, but the maritime counties were abundant in the number of volunteers.Now, on the subject of exemptions, it was a subject on which he should not enter into detail there had been doubts entertained, and these doubts arose out of the act of Parliament; some of which doubts, he could not help saying, were occasioned by those who had not read the bill. Some of these points he had stated. However, if these doubts were so considerable as he apprehended them to be, it would be proper, even before the recess, that a bill should be brought in to remove those doubts. He then proceeded to explain what he understood to be the operation of the army of reserve, as it bore on the subject alluded to, by those who had already spoken, and then reated, that as he understood a considerable number of gen temen wished to have the matter of exemp

tion of the volunteer corps better explained than it is at present,' he should propose to bring in a bill for that purpose, and observed, that he should propose it before the recess; for he thought it essential to remove doubts upon that subject.

Mr. Windham explained what he meant in that part of his speech which adverted to sea fencibles, to refer only to the places in which they were to be employed: all he wanted was, that they should be employed in proper places, and for proper purposes.

Mr. T. Grenville was surprised that his right hon. friend and relation (Mr. Pitt) had thought it was only expedient at this time, to take a prospective view of public affairs; he considered the present as the natural and fit occasion, not only for examining the military arrangements which government proposed prospectively to adopt, but also for examining what use ministers had made of those powers, which, in a former session, were entrusted to them by Parliament. He did not

think any thing said by the right hon. gent. opposite to him (Mr. Yorke) such an answer to the objection of his right hon. friend as to have called on him, or any other of those who embraced his sentiments, to make any observations on the present occasion, had i not been from what fell from his right hon. relation (Mr. Pitt). With every wish to agree in any opinion expressed by that right hon. relative, he could not bring his mind to concur in the sentiments which had fallen from him that night. He thought his right hon. friend had taken a contracted view of the subject. No evidence was before the House of the volunteers being at all in a state of becoming effective. How then could it be argued, that they could ever become so completely effective as to prove a substitute for our regular army? It was not, perhaps, common to give an account to the House of the amount of the regular army. It was easy, however, for any gentleman, comparing the statement of the Sec. of State with the other known branches of our military establishment, to know what that force actually was. The whole was stated by the Sec. at War to amount to 120,000. By subtracting the Imilitia we could at once see the amount of our regular force. The militia was 70,000, which being deducted from the whole regular force, as stated by gentlemen themselves, there remained 50,000. In this number, it was necessary to observe, the army of reserve was comprehended. Was it possible, then, to conceive that such was the force of the regular army of this country?—But he did not wish to stand on any small ground of objection. It was known pretty well what was the

state of our regular force in March last, at the commencement of hostilities. The inadequate state of our military preparation, he at that time thought a charge of a serious nature against government. But, if it was then regarded as a crime, that the regular force of this country only amounted to 20 or 25,000, what were we to think of the energy or exertion of that government, which, in the space of eight months, during which every nerve ought to have been stretched to render our situation more suitable to the danger which threatened us, had increased that force only from 8 to 10,000 men; and who had, in the mean-time, been compelling every man to enter into a military service of a different nature, to the destruction of that service, which it was their bounden duty to encourage and support. He had heard from his right hon. relation, that doubts were entertained as to the exemption from the army of reserve in favour of volunteers, and he was still more surprised to hear from a right hon. gent, in administration, that such exemption actually existed. He knew that, in the part of the country with which he was best acquainted, the greater part of the volunteers had been enrolled under the express explanation that they were liable to the ballots under the existing acts. It was only represented to them, that as every person must serve, it might be more agreeable to them to serve in their own particular district, or in any particular corps, than to be drafted into the general levy. This exemption was the very cause of the deficiency of the army of reserve; it seemed, therefore, rather remarkable that it should be conferred on persons enrolled under the express understanding that they were not to be entitled to it. Thus were we destroying. our regular establishment, and putting the death-blow to that force which had lately gained such laurels to themselves and to their country! While we pretended to be inviting continental alliances, we were depriving ourselves of the means of profiting by them. The army of reserve he could not view as equal to the militia. They were subject to be drafted into other corps, and therefore their officers could never feel that military pride in them which was indispensable in an effective force. The discouragements, too, which the extraordinary bounties given in the army of reserve must have thrown on the recruiting for the regulars, was beyond calculation; and the army of reserve being raised by such immense bounties, must interfere with the recruiting in the regular army; and, besides this, he conceived the army of reserye and those of the regulars to

be a very improper mixture, for this reason, that one man who had received a bounty of 81. or 101. and who was bound to go to any part of the world, and to continue in the service for life, would have another by his side who had received 501. bounty, and who was not bound to go out of this island, nor to continue his services longer than the present war. The one of these would naturally laugh at the other. With regard to the act for regulating volunteers, it was so defective, that many very cruel hardships were felt by volunteers. He stated the case of some volunteers who had exercised sixteen days without arms. The lord lieutenant advised them not to train any more until they had arms; for that otherwise they would lose the benefit of the act, which required that they should have been trained with arms for a part of this time. They accordingly desisted for the four days waiting for arms, but they got none. In the mean-time, they were ballotted in for the militia, and when they claimed their exemption as volunteers, they could not be exempted: thus they lost their exemptions, not by any act of their own, but by the act of government. This shewed the absolute necessity of revising this act. Mr. Grenville concluded by observing, that if government do not take some means to place the regular army of the 'country upon an effective system, instead of applying themselves to the increase of the volunteer force, much as he respected those corps, yet he must feel the House would not do its duty if it rested contented with a force merely to assist a regular army at home.

Lord Castlereagb.-I perfectly concur in the opinion, with which the right hon. gent. who spoke last (Mr. Grenville) has opened his speech; that the present is

the natural and fit occasion, not only for examining the military arrangement, which government proposes prospectively to adopt, but also for examining what use ministers have made of those powers which, in a former session, were entrusted to them by Parliament;" nor should I be disposed to complain that another right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) should have questioned upon the present occasion the policy of that system of measures, to which the sanction of Parliament was formerly given, did not the review which he has taken of that system, appear to me not so much calculated to guide our policy hereafter, as most unjustly to depreciate and disparage the various efforts, which the country has made for its security, and to deny to all, except the troops enlisted for general service, the share of merit and

value which fairly belongs to them in a military point of view.-In examining the use government has made of the powers vested in them by Parliament, I am perfectly prepared to admit, that more ample means were never afforded to any former ministers; that no former occasion called for equal exertions; and, that in no period of our history had the government a people more willing to answer every call upon their exertions, or one more eager to make every sacrifice for the public safety I think it is but fair, that the conduct of government should be tried, as the right hon. gent. has proposed, with reference to the time they have had to act, to the means afforded them, and to the temper of the country, under which those means were to be employed. But, before I state shortly to the Committee what the King's ministers have accomplished for the defence of the country since Parliament last separated, I am anxious to rescue the military system, then decided upon. from two imputations, which the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) appears to me very unjustly to have thrown upon it. The first is, "that the measure of the army of reserve and the high bounties resulting therefrom, have essentially crippled, if not destroyed, the recruiting of men for general service," in considering which, the right hon. gent. recurs to his former suggestion of ballotting men for general service, denying to persons so ballotted the option of serving by substitutes. I am not disposed at present to argue the expediency of a measure of such extreme rigour. I wish only now to state what has been the effect upon the recruiting service of that measure, which he so much con demns. It appears, that out of 35,000 men, already raised for the army of reserve, 7,500 have entered for general service. It is to be observed, that this number has entered in a period of less than two months, the enlisting having commenced only in the beginning of Oct. and having been suspended, with a view to the better discipline of this force, since the 1st. Dec. The hon. gent. will therefore find, that this measure, which he describes as so fatal to the recruiting service, has in the short space of two months produced nearly as many men for general service as had been obtained in the preceding year, by the ordinary mode of recruiting, even at that period, when neither the militia nor the army of reserve were in progress. -The right hon. gent. very naturally conceives, that the high bounty must have altogether suspended the ordinary mode of reeruiting; but here again experience is pre

ferable to theory, and we find, that although the number of recruits so raised has been of late diminished, as I understand, about one-third, yet it has by no means had the effect, at least not in the extent which has been attributed to it by the right hon. gent, of injuring the ordinary recruiting service.

The next material objection urged against the system, is with respect to the volunteers. After depreciating the efficiency of that important branch of our public force, and giving the preference to an armed peasantry, unorganised and undisciplined, it is said, that the present force is not only bad in itself, but that it locks up a large proportion of our military population, and deprives us of their services for many more useful porposes. This objection I must positively deny. The exemptions granted to the volunteers, without doubt, make the ballot both for the militia and the army of reserve fall more severely upon persons not enrolled in these corps; and as we know that, in point of fact, few ballotted men ever serve in person, it certainly operates as an increase of tax upon those who are not hus enrolled; but in what shape can this be said to lock up any part of our population, so as to interfere with their becoming regular soldiers? Is there any thing to prevent a man serving in a volunteer corps from entering into the militia, or the regular army? Is it not, on the contrary, an ascertained fact, that any description of military service ri pens and prepares the feelings of men for. one more extended? It must then appear evident, that however it may shift the question of expense, in providing substi tutes, from one class of the community to another, yet, so far from narrowing the amount of substitutes to be procured, it has the directly contrary effect, inasmuch as it cannot fail to infuse a military spirit into many men, whose minds would never otherwise have received the same direction.-Having, I trust, removed the main objections that have been urged against the system itself, I wish to state to the Committee what has been the result of it, as administered by his Majesty's minsters, and to afford them a general outline of the means of defence that have already been provided, under the heads of army, navy, and ordnance.-In stating the present military force, it appears most satisfactory, to combine the whole number, of every description, at present subsisting in GreatBritain and Ireland. The gross force naturally divides itself into troops on perma nent pay, and those liable to service in the event of invasion. Of the first description

there are at present in Great-Britain and in the islands of Jersey and Guernsey, 130,000 men; and in Ireland, 50,000 men, making in the whole 180,000 rank and file. The right hon. gent. who spoke last (Mr. Grenville) seems to have been impressed with an ....lea that, of this force, but a very small proportion was disposeable for gene ral service, and he attempted to prove to the committee, that we had not the means, if a favourable opportunity presented itself for offensive operations, of furnishing an adequate force for that purpose. To prove this, he supposed the militia quite complete, and deducting the whole number to which that force may by law be carried, he thereb diminishes the real amount of the dispo eable force.-I can, however, have no objection to state distinctly the actual composition of the 180,000 rank and file, of which the army of the United Kingdom at home at present consists. The effective rank and file of the militia in Great-Britain and Ireland amount to 84,000 men; the regular force to 90,000, of which 27,000 are for limited service, and 69,000 at this moment disposeable for general service, in whatever proportion circumstances may render it prudent so to apply them.-The next great feature of our military strength is the volunteer force, of which there are at present in Great-Britain, accepted and arrayed, 340,000 men, and in Ireland 70,000, making a total of 410,000 rank and file in the United Kingdom, to which must be added, as connected with our defence on shore, though also applicable to service afloat, the sea fencibles, exceeding 25,000 men. i he gross force of rank and file, at present on foot, is therefore as follows: army in the field 180,000; volunteers 410,000; sea fencibles 25,000; total rank and file 615,000, adding thereto officers, non-commissioned officers and drummers. The gross force in Great-Bri. tain and Ireland (exclusive of various other auxiliary means of defence) amounts to not less than 700,000 men, and with respect to the more regular part of this army, namely, that which is kept constantly in the field, it may be considered as applicable, without any deduction, to meet the enemy, as it will be relieved by the other descriptions of force from those detailed services which in general occasion so serious a deduction from the fighting men of an army, whilst the efficiency of the volunteer corps is such as may fully qualify them, if the occasion should require it, not only to co-operate, in their due proportion, with the regular army,

but to be brought into the line immediately opposed to the enemy.-I am aware it may be said, that but a proportion of this force

is at present armed. Whatever delicacy may usually belong to. subjects of this nature, I feel no disposition, and see no reason why I should conceal from the country, in this or in any other respect, its true situ ation. Of the force in Ireland, consisting of 120,000 men, the whole is armed, and means are provided for arming, without delay, a still greater number of volunteers. Of the 495,000 men at present in Great-Britain, there are armed as follows: Army in the field 130,000, volunteers 220,000, sea fencibles 25,000—375,000. Remaining to be armed with muskets 120,000-495,000.-Of the latter, how. ever, a very considerable number are at this moment provisionally armed with pikes, nearly 80,000 having been already issued

from the ordnance. It is further to be remarked, that although the distribution. of arms has been, in the first instance, directed, so as to complete the corps of the metropolis, and the counties on the coast, there has been issued, at the same time, such a proportion of arms to the corps of the interior, as was deemed suffi cient for the purposes of immediate instruction, and arrangements have been made, which will enable the government to arm from the larger depôts of arms still unissued, and which are daily augmenting, whatever proportion of this force it may be found expedient, under any emergency, to assemble for service.-Such is the present state of our army; that of our navy is not less calculated to inspire confidence, and to ensure the public safety, as far as security can be accomplished by naval means. Without entering into a minute detail of the several classes of ships, of which that navy is at this moment composed, enough to slate to the Committee, that the number of ships of war at present amounts to 469, and that in aid of the regular navy, and for the purposes of coast defence, an armed flotilla, to the extent of 800 craft of all descriptions, is nearly completed, and further surveys are in progress for extending that number.-It must be gratifying to perceive the voluntary exertions of the country displayed not less strongly in the naval than in the land defence, and although the exertions of other portions of the community, too numerous to admit of specification, are equally to be admired, it is impossible not to allude to the dis

tinguished example which has been given upon the present occasion by the EastIndia company, and the corporation of the Trinity House: 20 armed ships have been furnished for the public service by the former, and 10 frigates have been manned by the latter for the defence of the Thames, which, in aid of its other ample naval defences, may be considered as rendering that important part of our frontier, absolutely impenetrable.-When the committee reflect on the naval means which the country at this moment possesses, and when they compare them with any means of annoyance which the enemy can command, although it can never induce them to trust the protection of the country exclusively to that description of force, which must depend in some degree upon an uncertain element for its means of acting, yet they must feel that they have every thing to hope, as the enemy have every thing to dread, from the exertions of our navy. It would be injustice not to notice, with the praise that belongs to it, the distinguished share which the ordnance department has borne in the execution of the present armament. In the habits of providing for a military system upon a scale altogether dissimilar to that upon which the wisdom of Parliament has thought it expedient at present to act, the ordnance has been prepared to meet, almost at the outset of the war, the unparalleled demands that have been made upon it. Since the commencement of hostilities, there have been issued by the ordnance 312,000 muskets, 16,000 pistols, and 77,000 pikes, reserving in store such an amount of arms, as, in the event of a campaign, may be stancient to meet the waste on service of S extended an army, whilst measures

ve been taken, which will enable it, at distant period, completely to arm the mole of the volunteers.-The field train, nich was fully adequate in the last war the force then employed, is, in GreatBritain alone, already increased from 346

048 pieces of ordnance, completely ap pointed, and brigaded under experienced icers. The horses attached to the same have been increased from 3,300 to 5,900,

d the drivers from 1,400 to 3,000. The antity of moveable ammunition with each gun has also been nearly doubled. The made up ammunition for small arms, oth distributed and in store, has been increased even in a greater degree, and the general provision of stores in all the other branches is equally abundant. Corrèsponding exertions have been made for the

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service of Ireland.-I have thus detailed to the Committee the actual state of depl fence, in which the country has bee placed, during the first seven months of to the war. Looking to the aggregate, in army, navy, and ordnance, I venture to put it to the feelings of the Committee, whether his Majesty's ministers have slep: upon their post or failed in their duty to the public. I am not disposed to contrast what has been done with the result of any former exertions made in any former war, for I am perfectly ready to admit that the exigency is as unexampled as the facilities of every description which the government has experienced from the nation; but I am desirous of putting it fairly to the Committee (admitting the extent of our resources, and the disposition to place them at the disposal of government, which perhaps never existed in an equal degree at any former period) whether they have not been called forth with diligence, with ra pidity, and with effect. I may, without presumption, speak with the less reserve upon this subject, as the department entrusted to my care, although it subjects me to an equal share of responsibility with the rest of my colleagues, entitles me certainly to no participation in the praise which belongs to the successful execution of these measures. I have therefore felt myself called upon, in justice towards the persons who preside, at this important crisis, over the great military departments of the King's government, to state what I have done, and thereby to discharge a debt of gratitude, which I owe to them, in common with the country.-Having said thus much on the past military system and measures of the King's government, I should not satisfy either my own feelings or discharge the duty which I owe to the public, if I did not express those sentiments with respect to the future, which are deeply impressed on my own mind; and, first, as to the improvement of the force now in exist ence, and in particular, of the volunteers. Although unprepared at this moment to express any opinion upon the detailed suggestions, which have fallen from my right hon. friend (Mr Pitt) yet I have no hesitation in concurring with him as a general principle, in the expediency of improving, as far as may be consistent with a reasonable attention to economy, the discipline and efficiency of these corps. I also concur entirely with my right hon. friend in opinion, that it is not the apparent abandonment by the enemy of their menaces of invasion, or even the failure