were always to be followed, for what purpose were some persons selected to lead? No rational man would wish to render himself obnoxious to the people, but yet no intelligent and dignified statesman would shrink from his purpose from fear of popularity, for it was notorious that the people were too apt to consult their immediate ease, and but seldom to look to future interests, however important they might be. Ministers, if they were wise, should rather encourage than attempt to depreciate an opposition, from which they might obtain the most useful advice. In many cases, indeed, they had acted upon advice derived from that quarter, although so forward to traduce its consequence, at the time it was offered. Ministers were told by his right hon. friend, that if the dangers of the country were fully made known, the spirit of the people would be found ready to meet it, and this appeared from the result; but the complaint of his right hon. friend now was, that that spirit was ill directed, that the flower of the military strength of the country was locked up in the volunteer system, and that the volunteers were governed by committees which were likely to become the focus of democracy, That such committees did exist was a fact quite notorious, and that six privates had, from their institution, the power of governing a whole corps, officers included, and of arranging every thing connected with its internal conduct, enforcing the attendance of members, infliction of fines, &c.-With respect to the allusions made to the amount of the bounties given to the substitutes for the Army of Reserve, he could say from his own knowledge, that not less than 50 guineas were offered for substitutes in Middlesex. A man was known to hold a paper, pasted on the top of a pole, at Charing Cross, with an inscription of " 50 guineas for a substitute;" and his hon. friend had said, that 100 guineas had been advertised for two substitutes at the Market Place of Norwich. To prove the enormous bounties offered, in contradiction to the statement of an hon. gent. on the opposite side of the House, he could quote many other instances, but it was unnecessary, and would only serve to prolong the debate. The learned member concluded with accusing ministers of running away from their duty, and declaring that he should alway's teel proud of having acted with his right hon. friend, in opposition to their system, whatever animadversion might be made upon him in that House, or whatever calumnies might

be propagated respecting him out of doors, because he was equally satisfied of the purity of his right hon. friend's motives, and the profound wisdom of his political conceptions.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer began by saying, that the learned member had concluded with a very heavy charge, indeed, upon his Majesty's ministers, namely, that they had deserted their duties and had given encouragement to a spirit of culumny ; but, to whom the charge of dealing in groundless slander and detraction most properly applied, he would leave it to the House and the public to judge. Of the duty of a member of Parliament he was fully aware; and no man respected that duty more than he did. He knew that, consistently with that duty, every member of that House was bound to examine, and entitled to state fully, his opinion upon every public measure. He should be sorry to see that disposition damped by any fear of animadversion, or that the exercise of such an important right should become the subject of calumny. He admitted fully that a statesman should prefer the interests of the people to every other consideration, and that unpopularity should not restrain him from pursuing the course of measures which his judgment prescribed. For popularity, properly understood, he professed the highest respect, and should always feel a proper sollicitude; but, that ministers had ever betrayed any idle, vain wish for popularity in the system they had acted upon, as had been insinuated, he most pointedly denied. what part of their conduct could the charge of endeavouring to court the people, be applied? Was it to be detected in their financial arrangements? Was it in the quantity of taxes they had imposed on the country? It would be recollected, on this point, that immediately after the conclusion of the last peace, an addition was made to the public taxes, which was equal to half the amount of the whole interest on the national debt, previous to the war which that peace terminated, and at the commence. ment of the present war, a further addition was made of twelve millions. From this it appeared that no less than 17 millions were added to the taxation of the country within the short space of 14 months. That is, not less than seven millions more than the whole interest of the national debt previous to the commencement of the last

war.

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The financial proceedings, therefore, of ministers could not be said to manifest any very strong disposition to conciliate popular favour; and could that disposition be,

seen in their conduct with respect to the military and naval departments? Did their keeping up 50,000 seamen during peace, together with a large military establishment, imply an extraordinary desire for popularity? In a word, did not every measure of ministers carry with it the determination to provide for the honour, the interests, and the safety of the country? He would put it to the candour and common sense of any man, whether, in their proceedings, they were in the least degree influenced by any base, unmanly, dishonourable wish to court popularity, and whether they had in any instance shewn the still more dishonourable wish to detract from, or calumniate any member for the performance of his duty? For himself and his colleagues he could say, they despised a practice so illiberal and so vile, and he was equally certain that his right hon. relation (Mr. H. Addington), to whose words some allusion had been made, would contemn any thing like it.

The

words alluded to, which were merely, that the sentiments which the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) no doubt, thought it his duty to deliver in that House, made a very unfavourable impression abroad; and that his observations upon the volunteers were particularly ill received. No doubt, however, the right hon. gent. felt his conduct justified in his own mind, but yet it was very natural to suppose, that the disposition he had upon all occasions shown to depre ciate the volunteers, would be considered a very ungracious return to them for their patriotic zeal, and for the diligent application of their time to acquire a knowledge of the means necessary to defend their country. That his Majesty's ministers attempted by any means to traduce the character of the right hon. gent. was an unfounded accusation; but that they complained of his conduct, was an undoubted fact. They complained of the right hon. gent., and the right hon. gentlemen who acted with him, because they condemned indiscriminately every measure that they had taken since their accession to his Majesty's confidence. They complained of the right hon. gent., because he reprobated their arrangements respecting the militia, though that body was constituted precisely as it existed at the time that right hon. gent. was in office. They complained of him, because he called forth all his efforts to decry the system of the volunteers, although it was no deviation whatever from that which prevailed, when the right hon gent. was in office but now it appears that the right hon. gent. would prefer an armed peasantry. In short, it was, because he arraigned

every thing they proposed, that they com plained. The right hon. gent. on the subject of the volunteers, had always argued as if ministers looked to that body as every thing, which they regarded only as an inportant ingredient in the public force. They felt that it was a principle never to be lost sight of, that our security materially depended on the diversified construction of our national army, and that in a country situated as ours is, it would be impossible to array in a regular army, any very considerable portion of our population; because it would be inconsistent with their industry and their habits, and injurious to the vital interests of the nation. In addition to the volunteers, we had, it was to be remembered, a regular army and a militia, much greater than ever existed at any period, that the right honourable gentleman was in office, and yet, he was heard perpetually to allege the inadequate state of preparation for the defence of the country. Among the singular modes of attack upon ministers, resorted to by the right hon. gent, and his advocates, it was observable that they uniform'y took the deductions from their own reasoning as facts, and generally relied on them as such. They concluded that at the peace the regular force of the country would be reduced, and therefore that it was reduced; but the fact was, and he had made inquiry to ascertain it, that from the whole of the infantry only 1500 men had been discharged, of whom 1000 were from the guards, as being under sized and otherwise unfit for service. The statements of the right hon. gent. were, therefore, as to this point, upon which he and his coadjutors had often dwelt, egregiously exaggerated. Their assertions with respect to the progress which recruiting for the regular army had made since the commencement of the war, were equally groundless. For, on the contrary, instead of such recruiting being at a stand, as they alleged, the army had obtained 7000 recruits from that army of reserve which that right hon. gent. so strongly condemned; and upon a comparison of the period which elapsed since the war commenced with the same progress of time during the last peace, it appeared, that more men had been obtained by recruiting within the former period, notwithstanding the competition which ordinary recruiting had to encounter in the high bounties offered for substitutes in the army of reserve, the amount of the militia, and the exemptions granted to volunteers in the one instance, and the solicitude which must have assisted in the other instance to fill up regiments, and the facility of obtain

ing recruits in consequence of the militia being disbanded, &c. This consideration would surely be admitted by the right hon. gent. to be a strong proof of activity in the recruiting service, and it must be evident that his apprehensions upon this head had been quite unfounded; for, upon the whole, it would appear that the regular army had obtained, within the short space of seven months, no less than 15,000 recruits. So much for the outcry raised by the right hon. gent. and his party, as to the state of our means for the defence of the country, and the exertions which ministers have made, seconded by the wisdom, energy and zeal of Parliament and the people, to give to every department of the public force ample resources to meet the exigences, to avert the dangers of the present crisis, and to oblige the enemy to feel the vanity and wildness of the calculations which urged him to occasion that crisis!

Mr. Windham denied that he ever meant to disparage the volunteers; and said that his remarks upon the reduction of the army previous to the commencement of the war, referred to the disbanding of the foreign corps in our service, which was a proceeding that he would ever condemn.-After a few other remarks from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the bill was read a third time and passed.

HOUSE OF Lords.

Thursday, December 15.

(MINUTES.]—The royal assent was given, by commission, to the Malt Tax Bill, the Place and Pension Duty, the Irish Habeas Corpus Suspension, the Irish Martial Law, the Seamen's Desertion, the Bank Restriction, the British Sugar Bounty Drawback, the Irish Provision Import, the Irish Oats Distillation, the Small Notes, the East India Bonds Duty, the Annual Indemnity, the Curates' Relief, and the Portugal Wines Bonding Bills. The Lords Commissioners were, the Lord Chancellor, the Earl of Roslin, and Lord Walsingham.-After some routine and private business was disposed of, Mr. Vansittart, accompanied by several members, brought up from the House of Commons, the Volunteer Corps Regulation Bill. The bill was forthwith read a first time and, on the motion of Lord Walsingham, ordered to be printed. His lordship took the opportunity to state, that should the prints be on the table to-morrow, it was his intention then to move for the second reading of the bill.-Adjourned till to-mor

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VOL. IV.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, December 15.

[MINUTES.]-The Deputy Usher of the Black Rod appeared at the bar of the House, and desired its attendance in the House of Peers. The Speaker, attended by several members, accordingly proceeded to the Upper House, where the royal assent was given by commission, to the Malt Duty Bill, the Pension Duty Bill, the Curates' Relief Bill, the Irish Habeas Corpus Bill, the Irish Martial Law Bill, the East India Bonds Bill, the Irish Sugar Drawbacks Bill, the Irish Oats Distillation Prohibition Bill, and the Portugal Wine Bonding Bill.-On their return, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he rose to move, that the House should, at its rising,' adjourn to Monday next. Previous to the question being put, he observed, that, perhaps, it would be proper to give notice of his intention of moving, early after the meeting of the House, for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the cause of the disputes between the cotton manufacturers and their servants. He should have moved for such Committee, previous to the recess, had it not been for the absence of several gentlemen, whom he wished to be present when the subject was brought forward. He also intended to move for a Committee to inquire what difference there was between spirits distilled from malt produced from barley grown in England, and spirits ditilled from barley grown in Scotland.-The order of the day for receiving the Report of the Committee of Supply was deferred till Monday. The Committees of Supply and Ways and Means were postponed till Monday.Adjourned till Monday.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, December 16.

[MINUTES.]-Counsel were further heard, and at considerable length, relative to the Appeal, Keighley v. the East India Company, namely, Mr. Mansfield in continuation for the respondents. The farther hearing was postponed till Monday.-An officer from the Bank of England, presented at the bar, an account of the number, and amount of Bank Notes in circulation, on the 25th day of each month, from February till November 1803, pursuant to a motion of Lord King. Ordered to lie on the table.

[VOLUNTEER EXEMPTION BILL.]-Upon the motion of Lord Hawkesbury for the second reading of the Volunteer Exemption Bill,

The Earl of Suffolk, in pursuance of the
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intimation he had given on a former evening, took the opportunity to deliver his seutiments with respect to topics of which the bill in question formed a part. He professed himself the friend of the volunteer system, which he thought, well regulated and applied, might be rendered of the most essential service to the country, It was not his intention to oppose the present measure. The volunteer force was a great and desirable accession to the defence of the country, and what he had to trouble their lordships with should principally regard the application of such a force. He begged the attention of their lordships to some circumstances connected with a corps formed in that part of the country where he resided, and composed chiefly of his own tenants: these consisted of about 300 men. From the rank he had the honour to hold in his Majesty's service, he could not be appointed to the command of the corps himself, but the lord lieutenant of the county had the goodness to appoint his son to that station. He, however, materially assisted in the drilling and disciplining of the corps; indeed he had or could obtain no other assistance in the business than that of a serjeant of marines and a corporal; they were drilled, he believed, about eighteen times before they were inspected; and the state of discipline and order to which they had attained at that period, was hardly to be credited; they were, upon the whole, as fine a body of men as he would desire to see, and really belived he should as soon undertake to lead them against the enemy, as the brigade of guards which he had the honour to command in America, and which had so greatly signalized themselves in that country under Lord Cornwallis and other officers. He was of opinion the volunteers might be rendered of the most essential service; but every thing should be done to conciliate them, and to keep up that military spirit and ardour with which, in general, they seemed actuated. Singular as it may appear, it was yet in the conviction of every man skilled in military tactics, that soldiers, particularly that description of them which composed the volunteers of this country, may be over-disciplined; and it were obviously better to lead men rather minus in that respect, than in the least under the influence of discontent. The enthusiam of that part of the national force should be flattered as much as possible; they should be as little harassed or fatigued as possible, and, above all, except in cases of direct necessity, care should be taken not to detach them from their homes and families: many of them were in such circumstances, that were they

taken from their families and occupations, the former must become parochially chargeable: the poor's rates were severely felt at present, especially by the land-holders, and he alluded to the ill consequences which might possibly ensue in the event of their being materially increased. He was confident that on the occasion of actual service, the volunteers would feel an emulation to equal at least, if not excel, either the militia or the troops of the line, indeed, all these different descriptions of the national force, would feel a laudable spirit of rivalship and emulation, which might be directed in a way to prove highly serviceable. Speaking of the system of discipline which he thought it would be proper to apply to the volunteers, the noble earl expressed his disapprobation of the plan of having majors attached to them; those probably would be inclined to assimilate the volunteers to the military system of discipline, in too great a degree, and possibly may conduct themselves in other respects in a way not agreeable to the members of volunteer corps. Another consideration, and not an immaterial one, as consi dering the present contest likely to be protracted, militated against such a plan, namely, that of economy: the regulation alluded to, would certainly involve a considerable expense, but there was a certain description of regular assistance which he thought the volunteers stood in need of, namely, the assistance of adjutants properly qualified, and as still more indispensable, the assistance of serjeant-majors, aud these regulations would, comparatively, be attended with no greatexpense. He had the highest expectations from the volunteers, and it was to be remembered, that at the commencement of the French military operations, they were more indebted to the exertions of their volunteers than even to the troops of the line, and iofinitely more so than to the services of those conscripts who were dragged into action,His lordship then proceeded to take a general view of a defensive system, with a reference to the event of invasion. One of the things which first struck him as most proper to be done, was the establishment of a great military depôt in a central part of the kingdom; considering its local situation, and geographical circumstances, he considered arwickshire as the fittest county for such sn establishment: from this county, stores, &c. may be forwarded towards different parts of the coast, as occasion may require, Near to this depôt, a great rendezvous of troops may be also established, and which may be peri odically changed. Their lordships would recollect that such a depôt as he had in his

contemplation, was long since, and most judiciously, established in the center of Ireland, namely, in the town of Athlone. He would by no means recommend that military depôts should be established on the coasts, or nearer to them than the distance of a forced march, or thirty miles. What would be the consequence if the enemy took possession of a military depôt? They would| find themselves at once provided with every thing necessary, and, more especially, with several important articles, it was impossible they could bring with them. He then pro. ceeded to recommend the erection at proper stations on the coast, of Martello forts. These would be found of inconceivable service in repelling the enemy; the expense of erecting them would not be great, they were of a circular form, with a roof nearly flat, or but little sloped, and formed so as to be bomb proof. In them a piece of ordnance was transversely fixed, and so as to move round, and capable of being pointed in any direction; the resistance those erections were capable of was exemplified in an affair which took place on the coast of Corsica last war. One of these was attacked by a ship of the line (he believed it was the Terrible) commanded by Captain Young; and which was assisted by a 40 gun ship: in the course of a spirited conflict, the Terrible was more than once set on fire, as redhot balls were discharged from the tower. The result was, that both vessels were beat off, and our troops were afterwards obliged regularly to open trenches against the tower before it surrendered. His lordship was proceeding to animadvert upon other topics connected with the defence of the country, when he was called to order by

Lord Hobart, who begged leave to remind the noble earl and the House, that the subject regularly under consideration was, whether a bill, to explain and amend two acts passed in the 42d and 43d year of the King, relating to volunteer corps, should be read a second time. It was in the judgment of their lordships how far a great part of what had fallen from the noble earl was relevant to such a consideration.

The Earl of Suffolk proceeded :-he should endeavour to avoid any matter which may be considered as disorderly, as far as possible: he continued to expatiate upon such topics as be conceived to be, in some degree, connected with the subject before the House; and, adverting to the state of Ireland, he observed, that he had lately received a letter from a particular friend of his, an officer of great professional merit, and who was a district general in that part of the united king

dom. He alluded to Sir Eyre Coote; the letter was of a very consolatory description: the officer in question had traversed 500 miles of that country, and the description which he gave, he was sure, would be very satisfactory to several noble lords who heard him. He begged he might be allowed to read the letter as part of his speech.

Lord Hawkesbury rose to order. He felt it incumbent on him to interpose on such an occasion, and to advert to the obvious impropriety of suffering the communications of a general officer commanding a district, stating what his private opinions were on topics of so much delicacy and importance, to be so promulgated. Whether the communication was of a favourable or a disadvantageous nature mattered not, in his view of such a proceeding: the practice he thought was highly improper, and were it suffered to prevail, it might be recurred to in cases where the intelligence was of an opposite description. Adverting to the irregularity of what fell from the noble earl in point of order, he followed the example of his noble friend, in stating to their lordships what was the precise question before them.

The Earl of Suffolk again rose, and after observing that he stood corrected, proceeded to observe upon certain proceedings which illustrated the professional abilities of his hon. friend, the general officer in question. He particularly adverted to some circumstances connected with the taking or the eva cuation of Alexandria, when

The Lord Chancellor quitted the woolsack, and deemed it incumbent on him to interpose respecting the question of order, It was with pain that he felt himself called upon so to interrupt the noble earl, a great deal of what fell from whom might, he thought, be better heard in other places.His lordship then put the question upon the bill, when

Lord Grenville rose, and spoke nearly as follows-It is not my intention, my lords, to take this opportunity of entering fully into the general system of regulations relating to the volunteers, and the defence of the country, which, from the nature of this bill, I might very fairly do. I mean to confine myself wholly to that particular point more immediately before the House. I shall very early after the recess take an opportunity of discussing more at large a great many points. respecting the volunteer system, which I consider as a subject of the last importance. Although, my lords, my objections go in some measure to the frame of the bill, yet I do not wish to object to it altogether, as the delay which the bringing forward a new *K kk 2