When you got there, were there many people about the place? -Yes, a great many outside and inside.

Can you tell my Lords and the jury about how many?—No, I cannot.

You can tell me whether there were 10, or 20, or 100?-There were more than that, outside and inside; I dare say that there were about a hundred outside, and a great many inside.

Did you observe whether any of them had any thing in their hands? Yes, a great many had some weapons in their hands of different sorts, and some few had none.

What sort of weapons were they which they had in their hands?--Some had spears, some had old knives on the end of a stick, and long rods of iron peaked at the end.

Was any thing given to you when you were there?--Yes, they gave me a piece of a mop-stick, and they told me to take that with me to defend myself.

How long did you stay at Zephaniah Williams's house?-I did not stop no time; they were all out directly, to go on to the mountain.

Did you go with them to the mountain ?—Yes, I went along with them.

About how far is the mountain from Zephaniah Williams's house?--About two miles.

Is it between Ebbw-vale and Nant-y-glo?--Yes, on the top. Did you stay there for any time?--Yes, from two hours and a half to three hours.

While you were there, did other persons come to the place?-Yes, they were coming in droves from all parts.

To what number do you think they came in in droves?-I should think four or five thousand there; but it was so very dark that I could not judge exactly.

Did you see whether they had any thing in their hands or not? -Yes, they had.

Of the same description as the others had ?—Yes, of the same description that the others had.

Is there a tump upon that mountain ?--Yes.

A place higher than the rest ?--Yes, a place off the road, upon one side of the road.

Did you see Zephaniah Williams?—Yes, he got on the top of this tump.

When he got upon the tump, and the people stood by, did you hear him say any thing.

Mr. Kelly. I presume that your Lordships will hold what was said by Zephaniah Williams to be admissible, upon the same ground as that which was said by that person named Reed, before objected to. I shall not repeat the objection; I would

only now, once for all, beg your Lordships to consider that we object to the admission of it; it will not be necessary for your Lordships to hear it argued again.

Lord Chief Justice Tindal. This is not exactly upon the same ground as the other. There is evidence before us that the prisoner at the bar referred to the name of Zephaniah Williams, and stated that he was coming.

Mr. Kelly. No doubt. I do not in the least dispute that there is evidence that Zephaniah Williams had been named by the prisoner; and, for aught I know, may afterwards have been joined with him.-The ground of my objection is, that this took place before the prisoner was present, and before he joined the body that afterwards marched into Newport.

Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. Did you hear Zephaniah Williams say any thing?-Yes.

What did you hear him say?-He got on the tump, and he said, "My dear chartists, you need not be frightened because we are bound to be at Newport at two o'clock;" he said, "The soldiers will not touch you."

Did he say any thing further?-He said something in Welsh, but I did not know what it was.

Did you hear whether there were others on the road, or not? -Yes; he said a lot was to meet them from all parts.

Mr. Kelly. It is rather too much a leading question to put the words into the witness's mouth.

Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. Will you tell my Lords and the jury all that he said, as nearly as you can remember?-He said something in Welsh, but I did not know what he said, and then they all started down.

Was any answer made by any body to what Williams said?— They said, "Come on, my boys."

When he said, "The soldiers will not hurt you," was any thing said in answer to that?-The men all whooped, and said, “We do not care for them."

Did they say any thing further ?-No, they all marched away. As you were going along, was any thing done to any of the houses as you passed ?—Yes.

What was done?--There was knocking the doors open, and breaking the windows and taking people out of bed.

What was done with the people whom they took out ?--They took them along with them.

Where?--Where they were going; to Newport.

What do you mean by taking them; was any thing done to them to make them go?—Yes.

What?--If they did not come they were dragging them out; they pressed them to go.

Did you at any time show any unwillingness to go any fur

ther?-I made my escape on the road; and they were pushing me on, and knocking me on the back with a stick, and they swore they would serve me out, if I did not come along with them.

Is there any canal any where along the line of road?--AtAbercarne.

Did any thing happen to you at the canal?--Yes, they threw me in.

Into the canal ?--Yes.

Mr. Attorney-general. Your Lordship will see Abercarne rather more than half way between Newbridge and Risca.

Lord Chief Justice Tindal. Yes.

Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. What had you been doing just before they pushed you into the canal?-I was trying to make my escape from them.

And they pushed you into the canal ?—Yes; they were saying all along the road they would serve me out.

Did you get out of the canal ?-Yes.

Was any thing done to you after you got out?--After I got out they pushed me along, but I could not walk from cold and wet. I was quite stiff, and dropped as they were pushing me along, and I lay on the road, and afterwards I got to a small house at Abercarne, and I asked them to take me in, and so they did; they were gone to bed, but I knocked them up.

About what time did you leave that house?—About half-past six in the morning.

Upon leaving it, did you make your way towards home?--I made my way towards home, and in my way I met from 20 to

30 men.

Were they coming in the direction towards Newport ?--Yes.
Had any of them any thing in their hands?--Yes.
What?--Some weapons, some pikes.

Things of the same kind as the others?-Yes.

Upon your meeting those 20 or 30 men in your way home, did you go on towards your own home?--They took me back with them by force.

On the road back to Newport ?--Yes.

How far was it from Sir Charles Morgan's park, at Tredegar, that you met those 20 or 30 men ?-Half-a-mile from Abercarne, where I turned off to go to Blaina.

Did you turn back with them?—Yes.

Mr. Baron Parke. I do not understand this; he was thrown into the water at Abercarne, and went into a house; where was that?

Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. At Abercarne, and then he went on his way homeward.

Mr. Baron Parke. That is four or five miles from Tredegar? Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. Yes, my Lord; and these men met him and took him towards Newport.

Mr. Baron Parke. Back again?—Yes, my Lord.

Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. [To the witness.] Did you go with them as far as Sir Charles Morgan's park ?—Yes.

Through the park?—Yes; near to Newport.

As you were coming towards Newport, did you meet any coming back?--Yes; they were running back in all directions, some with their hats on and some with their hats in their hands.

Upon seeing them coming back in all directions, did you and the men that you were with turn back ?—I wanted to cut back with the first running back, and they said, "Damn your eyes, what is the matter?".

The others desired you to stay, for what?-To know what was the matter.

Mr. Kelly. This must have been after the transaction.

Mr. Serjeant Ludlow. This is the party in retreat. [To the witness.] Upon learning what had passed they turned back?— Yes.

Cross-examined by Mr. Kelly.

Let me know what time it was you went to the mountain, where you say Mr. Williams made a speech?-On Sunday evening.

What time?-Between six and seven o'clock.

How far is the mountain where the speech was made on the tump from Abercarne?--I cannot tell exactly; from eight to ten miles, perhaps more.

What time was it that you got to Abercarne?-Why, it was between one and two o'clock in the morning.

What were you doing in the meantime; you do not mean that you were there from six or seven in the evening until one or two in the morning ?-We stopped on the hill from two hours and a half to three hours.

Do you know any place called the Cefn ?-No.

Did you hear any thing about it that night?--I heard people speaking about it, but then I did not know any thing at all about it.

Do you know where it is ?--No.

During the whole time that you have spoken of, did you see Mr. Frost?--I do not know him.

James James sworn.

Examined by Mr. Serjeant Talfourd.

Do you live at Coalbrook Vale?—Yes.
What are you by business?-A miner.
Do you know Zephaniah Williams?--Yes.

Does he keep a beer-shop called the Royal Oak ?—Yes.
Is that in your neighbourhood?--Yes.

How near is your house to the Royal Oak?-About half a mile; rather more, perhaps.

How far is the Royal Oak from Newport ?-About one-andtwenty miles.

I am speaking of Zephaniah Williams's house up at Nanty-glo?—Yes.

Do you pass through Abercarne to go to Newport ?--That is the best way of going; the road going by the tram-road.

Is there a tram-road from Nant-y-glo to Newport ?--Yes. And if you go by that, do you go through Abercarne ?—Yes. Was there a chartist lodge held at Zephaniah Williams's ?--Yes.

Did you ever attend that lodge?—Yes.

Were you at Zephaniah Williams's house in the morning of Sunday the 3d of November ?—Yes.

What time in the day was it when you first were at Zephaniah Williams's?--Half-past 10 in the morning, about that time, or from that to 11.

Was Zephaniah Williams there at that time?—Yes.

Were there any other persons in the house at that time?Yes, many; I do not know how many, but a good many.

Were you again in the afternoon of that day at the Royal Oak?—Yes; I was at the Royal Oak again about three o'clock, very near.

About three o'clock in the afternoon?-Yes.

Was Zephaniah Williams there then?—Yes.

Were there few or many people there then?-There were many people.

At that time was any proposal made by any one that you should meet at the mountain that evening?—Yes; there was some stranger man; I do not know who it was.

There was some stranger man to you, who said something about meeting on the mountain that evening?-Yes.

Was that in the presence of Zephaniah Williams?—Yes, Zephaniah Williams was in the room.

Did the stranger man you are speaking of speak in Welsh or in English?-In English.