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who composed the Association, whether Catholics or Protestants, Lord Fingal, for example on the Irish side, and Lord Fitzwilliam on the English, were guarantee enough that nothing was intended by it injurious, to the constitution. The honourable baronet adverted to the discordant materials of which the cabinet was composed, in a tone of mingled regret and sarcasm. The parties were joined, he said, without being united, and differed not only in political but moral feeling, on questions of vital importance to the country. It appeared as. if they had sat for the picture which Milton had drawn of chaos, or that he had given a recipe for compounding them.

Mr. Canning, in replying to the last speaker, divided his address into four parts:→→→ the immediate question of the Association, the Catholic question, in its comprehensive sense, the conduct of Government, and that part which related to himself. He had not heard any man during the debate deny that the Association was dangerous to the peace of the country; therefore, as a society tending to impede and retard the prosperity of the empire, it called for the interposition of parliament. It was the political mischievous character of the Association, that ought to be considered. Its excesses had contributed to the alienation of the public mind from the Catholic question, and it was his opinion that it never would be carried, as long as it was expected that it would lead to altering the church establishment. The right hon. gentleman then went into a long explanation of his going out and coming into offiice, and of the division of opinion which had existed upon the Catholic question in the cabinet for the last 35 years, and asserted, that since the Union of Ireland, there had never prevailed a common sentiment in the members of the Government regarding this topic. He added that it was his firm opinion, that if a cabinet should be formed for the express purpose of carrying that measure, it would fail in its object, and create a flame, most difficult to extinguish, throughout the country. In respect to the Catholic concessions, he had ever viewed them, not alone as they affected those whom they went to relieve, but for the sake of the interest, happiness and security of the whole country. He did not think that every thing could be accomplished at one blow. Of that opinion he had been cured by his recollection of the folly committed in 1813, when they might have had a Bill containing every concession to the Catholics, but seats in Parliament, which Bill they had thrown up in a pet. The lost ground might yet be recovered. As one means of that recovery, the removal of the Catholic Association appeared to be indispensable.

Mr. Brougham avowed that he stood before the House as the defender of the Catholic Association, as the advocate of the Irish people to meet, to consult, to petition, to remonstrate, aye, and to demand their just rights. And what, he asked, were the acts charged against the Association of which he avowed himself the defender? what the overt acts, and what the conduct which had such perilous tendency? It was said that they had interfered with the administration of justice. Had they interfered with any effect? The learned gentleman went into several details, to shew that justice could not easily be obtained in the courts in Ireland. The best way of putting down the Association, he continued, would be to take away the grievances which oppressed Ireland. But surely what was right in England, could not be wrong in Ireland. Had not the Methodists, (who instead of being a society of 3000 individuals, comprised 500,000,) had not they their conferences, their committees; for example, their "Secret Committee of Privileges for the ensuing year;" and did not they keep books, and make collections? And yet it was a charge against the Catholic Association, that an account was kept of all their funds. After combating, in very energetic language, the arguments which the Attorney General for Ireland adduced as proving the necessity of the measure, Mr. Brougham concluded by calling upon the members of the Government, by the responsibility of their stations, by their characters as statesmen, by every principle of policy and prudence, to deal with the Catholics, not by measures of oppression, but conciliation; and to reflect, ere it was too late, on the consequences which must result from passing this Bill.

Mr. Butterworth rose to tell the House, that the committee of the Methodist Society, of which they had heard so much from the last speaker, had been appointed purely to guard their religious privileges, and not for any religious purpose whatever. The many accounts to which the honourable and learned member had referred, belonged to a totally different department, and not to that committee, and applied solely to the sup

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port of preachers and their families, and no analogy whatever existed between the Methodist committee and the Roman Catholic Association.

Mr. Goulburn made a brief reply, when the House divided.

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Sir Francis Burdett presented a Petition, which he said was signed by a greater number of the Roman Catholics of Ireland than had ever before fixed their name to any document of a similar description.

The Petition having been read by the clerk, and ordered to lie upon the table.

Sir Francis Burdett again rose, and declared that no man could have a greater desire to witness the immediate and triumphant success of this great cause than himself. When he thought of the present enlightened state of men and minds, it must be impossible that such a question, founded upon constitutional right, upon the clearest justice, and upon the soundest policy, could fail of success. There was a time when the Catholics were the cause of fear, when an arbitrary and bigoted king wished to change the religion, and overturn the constitution of the State. Even then the Catholics were not feared for religious, but for State interference. When there was a large body of those state Catholics, supported by the See of Rome, and by a league of foreign Catholic kings, with a Pretender, who was ready to be despatched to claim the crown, whenever they were ready to uphold him, no wonder that some fears were felt by men jealous of their rights and liberties, and who understood and prized the inestimable blessings of a pure religion, and a free constitution. However, all these fears should now be forgotten. There is now no body of State Catholics, and all these things belong to other feelings, and other days. He did not now profess himself an advocate of any religion, still less of the Roman Catholic religion, but he was of opinion that it had much that was good in some of its institutions, and that it would afford as much to justify it as any other system of faith. However, as he had been bred in the Church of England, he naturally and justly preferred that faith to any other; and though, perhaps, it might be modified, in his judgment it was the most perfect church, and its clergy the most learned, enlightened, and useful body of men that existed.

The hon. baronet dwelt next upon the danger which must result to this country, in case of any disaffection on the part of Ireland, should we be involved in another continental war, and contended that there could be no hazard in giving seats to a few respectable Catholics in that House, and admitting Catholic noblemen into the House of Lords. On every consideration, he said, we were called upon to fulfil the terms of the treaty of Limerick, and more especially to fulfil the terms upon which the Union of Great Britain and Ireland was effected. He then concluded a most eloquent and temperate speech, by appealing to the generosity and justice of Parliament, and by moving that the House should resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, to consider the existing laws which affect his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, with a view to their repeal.

Mr. Croker seconded the motion, and gave notice, that should no other honourable member propose it, he should move the insertion of a clause to embrace a provision for the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland.

Mr. Leslie Foster said, he belonged to a large portion of the Irish people, who could not conscientiously accede to the motion. He believed that the efforts which were now made, were directed to the overthrow of the Church establishment in Ireland. If every population, merely on account of numbers, were to change the established constitution, then we should come to the conclusion, that all right, all previous convention,

resolved itself into the law of the strongest. But a great mistake prevailed as to the actual population of Ireland; and the honourable gentleman entered into some details to prove that there were about 1,860,000 Protestants, and 4,930,000 Roman Catholics We had been often taunted with unfounded statements on this subject; but he hoped we should now hear no more exaggeration of the comparative numbers of the Catholics and Protestants. Eighteen years ago, the advocates of the Catholics exclaimed, "What are you afraid of? The power of the Pope is at an end; the Jesuits are no more.' But what was the case now? The chair of St. Peter is filled by a worthy successor of the Innocents and the Clements; the Jesuits are restored at home and abroad, and the throne of France is filled by a prince who is disposed to refuse nothing in support of the popish cause.. Under these circumstances he could not think it desirable to make any alteration in the political condition of the Catholics of this Empire.

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Mr. Canning expressed his opinion that this was not the most favourable opportunity for pressing on Parliament the claims of the Catholics of Ireland, but still he should give them his support. He could not understand the proposition that those who inhabited the same soil, and mingled with their Protestant countrymen in all the other relations of life, should still be excluded from those benefits of our common constitution, which were the constant object of the prayers and wishes of the Catholics. He was convinced that there existed in the constitution an immoveable and improveable principle, which admitted of the change contemplated, so as to bring with advantage into union, the energies of all classes of persons under its allegiance. For these reasons he should support the motion of the honourable baronet

The Solicitor General thought that it was not only an unfavourable and inconvenient, but an improper time to adopt the proposition of the honourable baronet. It would be said, that through fear, immediately after suppressing the Catholic Association, Emancipation had been granted. Among the last accounts from Ireland, it appeared, that in Kilkenny a priest of the name of Magee told the people, that if Parliament put down the Association, he should still collect the rent; and that his congregation should advance the rent on the altar, as the price of their redemption. With the Catholic laity he could agree, because they had no interest separate from the State; but the priests had an opposite interest. Upon these grounds he should raise his voice against the

motion.

Mr. Stuart Wortley observed, that although ten years ago he had voted against Catholic Emancipation, he should now freely admit his conviction, that the peace and tranquility of the empire depended upon it; and that measures ought to be pursued to bind all parties in contract for the good of the country.

Mr. G. Bankes thought that Prince Hohenlohe must have wrought some sly miracle to effect such strange changes in men's minds, if the Catholic Question was really becoming popular with the people of England. The learned body which he represented was still averse to it; and it was his own opinion, that the same reason still existed to refuse any further concessions.

He

*Mr. Plunkett made some eloquent remarks upon the variations in policy which time and circumstances produce, and argued, that if it were wisdom to deny certain privileges to the Catholics a century ago, it would be equal wisdom to grant them now. would state what he thought ought to be done. First he would put clergy and laity upon the same footing: secondly, he would make provision for the Roman Catholic clergy. He was inclined to think, that the Hierarchy of Ireland was in danger of being pulled down, but not superseded. He hoped that would never happen; but if the Protestant Hierarchy were pulled down, and the church property was offered to the Catholic clergy, they would not accept it. The people of Ireland would never consent to have the property of the country given to priests.

Mr. Peel implored the deliberate attention of the House, while he stated the grounds upon which he differed from honourable gentlemen who supported the motion. There were three grounds; treaty, natural right, and political prudence, or policy. He had just read the treaty of Limerick, but could not find that the Catholics of Ireland contemplated that treaty as guaranteeing their restoration to political powers. As to natural right, if that right be correspondent with the right of property, would the great men who adjusted the articles of the Scotch Union, have allowed the permanent exclusion of the Roman Catholics? or would Lord Chatham and Lord Camden, in the debates of 1771 and 1774, have asserted, that the oath of supremacy was as saered and

obligatory as Magna Charta itself? How could such opinion be reconciled with the claim of natural right? If the doctrine of natural right be correct, why were qualifications of property necessary to the enjoying of a seat in that house? The next enquiry was, whether prudence and policy recommended the continuation of disabilities. He thought they did, while the Roman Catholics persevered in holding such monstrous pretensions. Suppose them true to their own principles, and to possess the ordinary feelings of man, they could not be friendly to our systems, and to things which we hold in reverence; and if unfriendly to them, and in possession of the means, they would doubtlessly substitute their own institutions, to the destruction of ours. In the course of his speech the right honourable gentleman made a variety of statements, which it is not in our power to detail, and concluded by saying, that he opposed the proposed concessions, as being utterly incompatible with the welfare of the kingdom.

Mr. Brougham rose to say, he could suffer the speech of the right honourable Secretary, and the new topics he had introduced, to pass unnoticed; but his arguments were too nice and subtle to admit of abbreviation, and still left the question undetermined as to what natural right constitutes the privilege of electing, or being elected. In reply to what had been advanced as to the danger of admitting the Catholics into Parliament, the learned gentleman referred to the number of dissenters who had been elected. "There are as many dissenters out of doors, said he, as there are members of the Established Church; and yet, they had only 4 or 5 of their whole body in the House, and from them no proposals had ever been made hostile to the church. The country had seen men holding the highest offices, even Lord Chancellors, professing the doctrines of the Presbyterians, and the theory of Socinus, and yet the safety of the church had never been menaced in consequence. The power of the Catholics was much more likely to be felt to the detriment of established systems, while they remained subject to disabilities and exclusions, than if they were conciliated, and received into the bosom of the constitution."

Sir Francis Burdett delivered a few words in reply. The House then divided.

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Notwithstanding all that has been urged in favour of the Roman Catholics, and their claims, we have yet to learn in what degree their opinions, their doctrines, or pretensions, have become less formidable to Protestants. If they have changed in their sentiments towards us, or if they have abandoned the ground on which they stood in a threatening attitude, we shall then be willing to concede much, if not all that they ask. But while arguments of intimidation are used, and as long as we are told that the Roman Catholics are strong enough in their present situation to frighten us into compliances, we cannot help feeling some anxiety as to the extent of their encroachments, if we should strengthen their position, and increase their influence and power.

The question of abstract right, of natural right, of birth-right to this or that privilege of society, will do for the schools, but never can be reduced from theory to practice. Men in a social state ought not be permitted to enjoy more power than they are likely to employ beneficially to those among whom they live; and until we can be made to believe, that the Roman Catholics entertain no principles or intentions essentially dangerous to a Protestant Constitution in Church or State, we are justified in withholding further concessions.

LAW PROCEEDINGS

RELATIVE TO THE CHURCH.

In the absence of any legal decisions particularly interesting to our readers, we avail ourselves of this opportunity to notice such of the Acts of Parliament passed during the last Session, as either immediately affect our clerical brethren, or are otherwise deserving their attention. The first, in order of time, is the Statute 5 Geo. 4. ch. 32. passed May 17, 1824, and intituled, “An Act to amend an Act passed in the last Session of Parliament, intituled, An Act for amending the Laws respecting the Solemnization of Marriages in England." The effect of this Act is to legalize marriages heretofore, or hereafter to be, solemnized in any place within the limits of any parish or chapelry, being duly licensed by the Bishop for the performance of Divine Service during the repair or rebuilding of the church or chapel of the same parish or chapelry, wherein marriages have been usually solemnized; or, if no such place shall be so licensed, then in the church or chapel of any adjoining parish or chapelry in which banns are usually proclaimed; whether such marriages be by banns lawfully published in such church or chapel, or by licence lawfully granted; and ministers who have solemnized such marriages previously to the passing of this Act, are indemnified for the same.

The Act further provides, that all licences granted for the solemnization of marriages in any church or chapel wherein marriages have been usually solemnized, shall be sufficient licence for solemnizing such marriages in any place so licensed as before mentioned, or in such adjoining church or chapel; and that all banns proclaimed, and marriages solemnized, in any place so licensed, shall be considered as proclaimed and solemnized in the church or chapel of the parish or chapelry in which it is situate, and shall be so registered accordingly.

By Statute 5 Geo. 4. ch. 58. passed June 9, 1824, and intitled, " An Act, to continue for four Years, and from thence until the End of the then next Session of Parliament, the Powers of the Commissioners for enquiring concerning Charities in England and Wales.". The several Acts of Parliament (58 Geo. 3. ch. 91. and 59 Geo. 3. ch. 81.) previously passed for enquiring into charities for the education of the poor, and other charities, in England and Wales, and which would have expired at the end of the last Session, have been continued from the expiration thereof, for the term of four years, and from thence until the end of the then next Session of Parliament.

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