ceived returns, which did not include the | it was brought up from the other House, whole, the remainder amounted to 15,000: and read a first time. Yesterday he atas far therefore as his inquiries had reach tended in his place, in order to deliver his ed, he was able to speak with precision, sentiments on it upon the second reading, that within the period he had described, but the House was so badly attended, that the inhabitants were increased 55,000, and he did not think it proper to speak to when the remainder of the returns came empty benches, and therefore postponed in, he doubted not but they would be what he had to say to this day upon the found to be much more. It had been said Bill's going to a committee; but here by the noble earl, that the Roman Ca- again he found himself disappointed, for tholics had increased within the diocese he understood since he came into the of Chester 2,000, between the years 1767 House, that the Bill had not been comand 1780. If however it was recollected, mitted, but that every necessary form had that it arose from a general increased po- been dispensed with, and the Bill ordered pulation during that period within that to be read a third time this day, contrary diocese, it would maintain the very con- to all precedent respecting public bills, trary conclusion the noble lord wished to which should be publicly committed in the draw from it, for it would prove, that body of the House. But he did not mean though they had increased, they had not to rest his opposition at all upon the matincreased in proportion to that of the Pro-ter of form; his objections would be ditestant inhabitants; besides, notwithstand-rected against the substance of the Bill, ing the Roman Catholics had increased in the diocese of Chester, he had it from snch authority as he could safely depend on, that within the period mentioned by the noble lord, the increase of Roman Catholics throughout England was no more than 1,500; in that point of view likewise, there was an actual decrease of the people of that persuasion throughout England, the diocese of Chester excepted, and there it had been fully proved that they bore no manner of proportion to the general increased population. the manner in which it was framed, the corrupt source from which it originated, and the various mischiefs with which it was pregnant. The loan to which their lordships were going to give a sanction, by passing the present Bill, was one of the most corrupt in its formation, the most shameful in its progress, and the most injurious to the public that could possibly be conceived. After this introduction, his lordship observed, that the loan presented two faces, the ostensible or open one, and the conEarl Ferrers said, he had taken his in- cealed; the former being framed so as to formation from the papers laid on the impose upon the public within and without table, and consequently if he had mis- doors, and the latter to pillage them of stated any thing the error was not imput- their property; the one was the pretended able to him, but to the species of informa- bargain made by the minister with the tion laid before the House. He was ex- subscribers, in behalf or under the implied tremely glad to hear many things which faith of parliament; the other, a private had fallen from the learned prelate; and contract, made with certain favourite subwas perfectly satisfied of the truth of what scribers for the most unjust, because the the learned prelate had advanced, being most shamefully corrupt, purposes. To now fully convinced, that the apprehen- prove what he now asserted, he would sions for the increasing growth of Popery, state the terms of both loans, or rather which he had expressed on a former day, the real and pretended terms of the same were in a great measure groundless, or so loan, taken in two different points of view, far unfounded as to render such a measure in order that their lordships might be enaas the one he wished to submit to the wis-bled to judge how far he was, or was not dom of the legislature unnecessary for the present. Debate in the Lords on the Loan Bill.] March 21. On the order of the day for the third reading of the Loan Bill, The Marquis of Rockingham said, he was totally uninformed, whether the Bill was or was not before their lordships till the evening before last, which was the day justified in the very harsh terms he had 150l. 3 per cent. valued at 581. €. s. d. 251. 4 per cent. valued at 78... 17 10 0 each Lottery Tickets, four to 1,000l. or 12. upon every 1,000. stock subscription, computed at 13 per cent. 1 4 £.105 14 0 0 upon by the rumour alluded to. There was another circumstance which deprived the noble lord of all apology, because in stating the progress of the bargain with the subscribers, he confessed, he had not entirely concluded it till Monday after, as his lordship expressed himself, there had appeared to him a disposition in the belligerent powers tending to peace. Such being the circumstances attend Here, then, was the bonus or profit stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the face of the nation, of 5l. 14s. On the other hand, he begged their lord-ing the loan, he thought himself fully jusships to attend to the real, not to this fallacious statement, in which he would prove beyond question, that allowing the stocks to have been fairly valued, the bonus was upwards of 84, if not full 8 per cent. For to the foregoing were to be added the interest from the 1st of Feb. to the day of the payment, a period of 7 weeks, at 3 and 4 per cent. which on each 100%. subscribed, amounted to 175. stock, or about 51. 7s. per annum, which within the period alluded to, would on that account alone put into the pocket of the subscriber nearly 8s. There was a discount upon each prompt allowed, and finally all those subscribers who should make the last payment, on or before the middle of September, were to be paid interest throughout, from the 1st of Jan. Taking, therefore, the bonus as stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and adding the other advantages he had now mentioned, suppressing all fractions of a shilling, the real bonus would be 1087. 78. Before he proceeded farther, he thought it necessary to take notice of some particulars, which aggravated the conduct of the minister, because calculated to serve the subscribers at the expence of the nation. By Castaign's paper, the Friday before the 9th, the day the Budget was opened, the 3 per cent. bore 58 and 59, and the 4 per cent. were done at 70. In the mean time a rumour of a peace was spread, which between that and Monday, the day the bargain was supposed to have been struck, rose the 3 per cent. to 60, 61, and even 62, and the 4 per cent. to 72. Yet, though the noble lord himself acknowledged that there was some foundation for such a rumour, and even in his place ventured to say, that there was a prospect, or at least an appearance of a tendency to peace, instead of availing himself of that favourable opportunity, of making an advantageous bargain for the public, he rated the 4 per cent. at 70, and the 3 per cent. at 58, just as if the stocks had not been at all operated # tified, in asserting, that on the day it was submitted to parliament, the bonus stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer of 5l. 14s. the 2. 13s. arising from the prompts, discounts and previous commencement of the interest from the 1st of January to the day of the first payment, with the depreciated value of the stock, added together, brought the bonus up to the monstrous sum of nearly 10 per cent. or 1,200,000l. premium. He was aware of the answers which might be made in defence of the loan: one was, the market fixed the price, and that the necessity of the state made the bargain, and not the minister; that to be sure the bargain was a bad one, in one light, but a good one, when considered as the best that could be made in the present exigency of affairs. He was ready to admit both as general proposi tions, which could not be fairly called in question, or controverted; but that was the very point in issue between those who negociated the loan and defended it, and those who considered it, at the best, an improvident bargain, and most probably a corrupt one. He denied, that there was a necessity of dealing with one set of men in preference to another, in order to enrich them at the expence of the public, or by plundering the public still more, to value the stocks 14, if not 2 per cent. under their intrinsic value. This formed the state of things, which he could never approve of, and a species of state necessity of which he would ever dispute the existence. He did not doubt, however, but the measure originated in necessity; he meant ministerial necessity; for notwithstanding the numerous places, pensions, contracts, and every other species of influence, in the gift or disposal of he minister; notwithstanding the last effect of a weak and unpopular administration, he meant the lavish hand with which honours were conferred, upon all sizes and description of persons, such was the folly, the madness, he might add the wickedness of the measures of govern, ment, that the minister found himself compelled to resort to this shameful waste of public money, to bring to his standard the corruptible part of his opponents, and to fix and persuade the wavering and doubtful among his friends. What he had yet offered on the subject of the loan would be totally incomplete, if he did not point out some of the leading circumstances respecting its negociation and distribution; which he trusted, would serve to convince the greatest political sceptic that it was not only improvident, but highly corrupt. He should for this purpose recur to the only ground on which it was attempted to be defended in the other House, upon the supposition already mentioned, that although a very disadvantageous bargain, it was the best that could be made. He would unsay every syllable he had urged to the contrary, if that was the case, and would now proceed to offer his reasons to shew it was not. The amount of the offers made by those who wished to subscribe, he understood amounted to between 30 and 40 millions, who, in the language of the treasury, were deemed good men, or persons supposed to be able to perform their engagements. This, surely, was a good ground for the minister to go to market on. He wanted to borrow a sum of money upon interest, and was willing besides to give a premium to the lender. If, as in the case of an individual, who wants to borrow 1,000/., and must have it, and there is but one lender, there the necessity is evident; for he submits because he cannot help it, and lies at the mercy of the money lender; but on the other hand, if when it is known, that his security is good, and that he has two or more persons ready to advance the sum wanted, his agent, if he be able or honest, will endeavour to make the best bargain in his power: he will treat with the money lenders severally, and close with the man who will advance the money at the lowest terms. Was that the conduct of the minister? Did he propose terms to different persons? No such thing. He selected from among the subscribers a few men of great weight, and those he meant to serve, and give a preference to; and after going through all the idle forms of a mock negociation, agreed to the terms they prescribed to him, or he wished to prescribe to himself. But this is all assertion, it may be said. What proof is there that every means were not tried to make a good bargain for the public? Proof, he would affirm, little short of mathematical demonstration. For no specific bargain was made with any man. The minister came to parlia ment, not on an actual contract with any particular man or description of men; he came only upon the faith of several offers amounting to upwards of 30 millions to be subscribed. What next? Why, when the persons who offered to subscribe, came to have the real sums entered before their names, it was discovered that four-fifths of the subscription was divided among the minister's friends, and a few great monied men; among, in particular, several of the members of the other House, clerks, mean and obscure persons, &c. while, on the other hand, some of the best names in the city were either excluded, or did not get more than a third, a fourth, or fifth, of what they wrote for. Either the minister foresaw the bargain would prove a very advan tageous one to the subscribers, or that it was liable to great risk. If the former, he should have reduced the profit; if the lat ter, it was rather singular that he should put those, whom he wished to serve, in a situation which might possibly render an intended act of friendship a misfortune. It was a matter of opinion no way material to his argument, whether members of the other House in trade ought to have had any part of the subscription; but if not in trade, or dealers in money, he believed it would be very difficult to persuade any man in his senses, that 10 per cent. profit upon a loan would not answer every purpose of influencing their conduct as much as if it had been actually issued from the Treasury. Consequently, the great numbers whose names appeared in the list laid before the other House, and the much greater number whose names were concealed or covered, convinced him that the loan was negociated with a view to bribe those who would not perhaps look for or receive a bribe in a direct manner.-He knew it was not parliamentary to speak of what passed in the other House; he would therefore say, that he heard the loan defended in a certain assembly on two grounds, besides those he had already recounted. One was, that if any benefit was likely to arise from a subscription of the kind, it was natural and proper that the minister should give a preference to his friends; and that loans had been generally understood, in former times, to be an engine of influence, and an appendage of administration, in order to enable them to conduct the affairs of government. To each of these he would give a specific answer, by demonstrating, that the fact having not happened, in reference to the period alluded to, it did not warrant the conclusion; and if it had happened, that its specific application in the present instance could not be maintained. He had been of an age sufficient to turn his attention to public affairs during the last glorious war, and the glorious consequences which attended it; and could therefore vouch for the truth of what he was going to assert, during the administration of lord Chatham, when the duke of Newcastle presided at the head of the Treasury. He had since refreshed his mind, by turning over such papers as enabled him to state correctly the facts he was about to mention. The bonus on the omnium of the loan of 1758, was but 1 per cent. on two millions; in 1759, he believed at per cent. discount upon four millions. In 1760, 1 upon eight millions; and the last per cent. though twelve millions were raised. The next year the duke of Newcastle went out of office, and it was not till 1763, the first year of lord Bute's administration, that the minister for the time being ever thought of extending his influence, by plundering the nation in the midst of those distresses which are always the concomitants of a state of war, during an administration in which a secret over-ruling influence was introduced, the fatal consequences of which, he feared, would only terminate with the overthrow of our constitution, if not the destruction of the nation itself. So far, he trusted, the fact was disproved, which was a full answer to the inference drawn from it; but he begged leave to add, that the glorious administration when lord Chatham was at the head of our councils, a Newcastle at the head of our finances, and an Anson at the head of our navy, wanted no aid from corrupt or secret influence. The influence of that day arose from a well founded confidence in the wisdom of their measures, in a well-earned popularity; in their spirited and vigorous plans, most happily executed; in an able and faithful disbursement of the public money committed to their management, and on the only true basis on which national prosperity can ever safely be supported, a firin and fixed attachment to the consitution, and every blessing we enjoy under it. Having touched upon a great variety of other topics of less consequence, he contended, that the minister in the other House had broke his faith with parliament and the nation; and though he should not put a negative on the Bill, he deemed himself called upon, as an act of duty, to testify his total disapprobation of a loan, which at a time of such public calamity as the present, when the utmost economy became necessary, wantonly and corruptly lavished at least a million sterling; and that, in his apprehension, merely for the purpose of influencing or bribing the representatives of the nation, in parliament, to give their countenance and support to the continuance of a most wicked, impolitic, and ruinous war. No reply was made. The Bill was read a third time and passed. Protest against passing the Loan Bill.] The following Protest was thereupon entered: "Dissentient, "Because when a bargain improvident in its terms, corrupt in its operation, and partial in its distribution, is negociated by a minister acting for the public, its having passed through the House of Commons can be no reason for its passing without observation through the House of Lords. Without waving our undoubted right of giving a negative to this or any other Bill, we respect the principle of public credit too much to attempt at this juncture to exercise that right, though, if we looked only at the enormity of the abuse, the most direct opposition never could be more properly called for: 21 millions are added to the capital of the debt for a loan of twelve; 5 per cent. perpetual annuity is granted; 650,000l. are to be levied in the yearly taxes upon the people. In such a situation the most rigid economy ought to have been used, and the premium on the loan ought to have been reduced in proportion to the exorbitance of the interest to be paid. Several circumstances appeared favourable to the minister, if his object had been to serve his own support. Besides the 'prospects derived from the beginning of a negociation for peace, it is allowed that treble the sum subscribed had been offered, and a very large part of that surplus by persons more responsible than very many of those who were admitted. In that situation, so favourable to the borrower, where the being permitted to lend was sought with emulation, the first commissioners of the Treasury chose to make a bargain, opened at 10 per cent. premium the day after the loan. "This price was not the effect of mere popular opinion, or of artful management; but was grounded on the real value of the great body of the other stocks at the time, and was no more than what arose from a just relation to the rest. We are the more dissatisfied with this shameful prodigality of public money, by comparing it with the period when a strict and conscientious management of public treasure at home became a foundation for the glory of our arms abroad. During the duke of Newcastle's administration, on the several successive loans from the year 1758 inclusive, to the time of his removal from office, never exceeded 1 per cent. at the opening; was generally less, and sometimes at a discount; yet the national credit was in vigour. During that time 43 millions were borrowed. In those happy days, the ministers standing on national ground, were not in a state of servitude to any set of men, nor led, through a false system of politics, to aggravate the distresses of their country, by hiring a venal cry to personate the voice of the public, and to give support to the measures which had occasioned such distresses. "It is not a matter of surprise to us, at a time when such things can be done with impunity, that lords of the greatest honour and ability have wholly discontinued their attendance. But it is not improper that those lords who do sometimes attend, should record their names in testimony of their strong condemnation of the terms of this loan, and of the motives which (they conceive) dictated terms so very disadvantageous to the crown and the nation. (Signed)-Rockingham, Portland, Osborne, J. St. Asaph, De Ferrars, Fitzwilliams, Bolton, Ponsonby." Debate in the Commons on the Contractors' Bill.] March 21. The order of the day was read, for the commitment of the Bill" for restraining any person, being a member of the House of Commons, from being concerned himself, or any person in trust for him, in any contract made by the commissioners of the Treasury, the commissioners of the Navy, the board of Ordnance, or by any other person or persons, for the public service, unless the said contract shall be made at a public bidding." On the question for the Speaker leaving the chair, Lord Beauchamp rose, and opposed it. He began by observing, that though this Bill had received the approbation of a former House of Commons, that circumstance could not preclude its being op posed in the present. Many different motives might have actuated gentlemen of the last parliament, in the votes they gave on the subject of this Bill, which did not now subsist, or ought not to operate. In the ardour of reformation, then prevalent, many important propositions were before the House, and the people very urgent in their complaints: perhaps it was judged right to embrace the smallest innovation proposed, or perhaps it was a piece of de licacy, not to dismiss in that House a Bill, by which its own independency was professedly supported, but leave it to be rejected in the other. Whether these, or whatever other reasons induced the concurrence of the late House of Commons in this measure, the conduct of one parlia ment ought not to govern any succeeding one. The principle of the Bill had never met his approbation, for it presupposed a degree of corruption in the government, as well as among individuals, which, without proper evidence, could not fairly be affirmed. It was absurd to infer, from the corruption of a single contractor, that every man of the same description was incapable of serving his country with inte grity. Why should government be precluded from intrusting the business of contracts to members of parliament, when perhaps among them might be found persons the best entitled to public confidence? Gentlemen should properly con sider how essential it was that this department of office should be faithfully discharged. His lordship then entered into the structure of the Bill, and adduced many objections, which, though they did not go completely to the principle of it, he thought might fairly be urged against its commitment. First of all, more was contained in the Bill than its title and declared design could warrant; for it excluded not only contractors themselves from the House, but all those who were employed or interested in the contract. Now this clause might, by construction, render many gentlemen ineligible, whose rights were not intended to be invaded, as most men of landed property had coals, copper, or timber, on their estates, all of which might be sold to contractors, and consequently involve the owner in the restric tion of this Bill. But the proposed refor mation would be as nugatory and uncon |